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A statement of the assets, liabilities, and capital of a business or other organization at a particular point in time, detailing the balance of income and expenditures - not that they aren't doing good things.
Especially, if they tell people they are going to hell, if they do not believe.
If that is the case, then their good works will buy them absolutely nothing.
The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time, as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life.
Wherever you copied that from is wrong.
First of all, the word aidios is used only twice in the New Testament. It is used in Romans 1:20 for God's eternal (aidios) power. And it is used in Jude 1:6 for the angels who are kept under eternal (aidios) bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.
Jude 1:6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept ineternal (aidios) bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
The angels who did not keep their own domain are the angels, the sons of God in Genesis 6:2-4 who took human wives and produced the Nephilim. Those angels are currently being kept under aidios (eternal) bonds until the time of their final judgment. And what is their final judgment? Jesus tells us in Matthew 25:41 that Satan and his angels (this includes the angels mentioned in Jude 1:6) will be sentenced to the eternal (aiónios) fire.
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aiónios) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Do you understand? The word aidios is used for angels in Jude 1:6 who are kept under aidios bonds until a coming time of judgment at which time they will be sent to the aiónios fire.
They are being kept in aidios chains awaiting their final judgment which is aiónios fire which may not be actual fire, but some form of punishment.
The word aiónios has a range of meaning which includes unending duration. And no less than the Greek/English Lexicon of the New Testament, known as BDAG after Bauer, Danker, Arnt, and Gingrich, state this. BDAG is the best Lexicon available in the English language. Depending on the context aiónios can mean any of the following as stated in BDAG.
1. pert. to a long period of time, long ago.
2. pert. to a period of time without beginning or end, eternal.
3. pert. to a period of unending duration, without end.
It is a fact that Philo used the word aioni with reference to eternity.
As to Philo, the sentence is in De Mundo, 7, en aioni de oute pareleluthen ouden, oute mellei, alla monon iphesteken. Such a definition needs no explanation: in eternity nothing is passed, nothing is about to be, but only subsists. This has the importance of being of the date and Hellenistic Greek of the New Testament, as the others give the regular, and at the same time philosophical force of the word, aion, aionios.
Secondly, you say, or the source you copied says, ''The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment.''
The implied claim that those words have to appear in just those ways in order for eternal punishment to be a reality is an invalid claim. Matthew 25:46 refers to kolasin aiōnion - punishment eternal. Again, the word aiōnion has within its range of meaning the meaning of eternal. 2 Philippians 1:9 refers to olethron aiōnion - destruction eternal. Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be basanisthēsontai hēmeras kai nyktos eis tous aiōnas tōn aiōnōn - tormented day and night for the ages of the ages which refers to unending duration of torment.
Now, again I remind you that in Jude 1:6 the word aidios which means eternal is used for a group of angels who are in aidios chains until the day of final judgement when they will be sent to the aiónios fire (Matthew 25:41,46). Therefore in this context aiónios cannot be of less duration than aidios.
On the other hand, in the context of Jude 1:6 aidios may not actually mean eternal since the angels in Jude 1:6 are kept in aidios chains UNTIL the judgment of the great day. But then the claim cannot be made that if 'eternal' was meant then the word aidios would have been used.
In the right context both aidios and aiónios have the meaning of unending duration.
I believe Mystic, nateswift and others here have seen me discuss our charitable work several times. Regardless, I don't feel comfortable giving out personal info.
Do you think I made that up? If so, what do you think we do with our money?
I have no quarrel with the charitable works of mainstream churches. God bless them. I have no quarrel with the sincerity and decency of the majority of the members in churches. I simply cannot understand how they can accept the barbaric things they accept about God while professing His love for us. It is incomprehensible. The primary message and efforts of the church are geared toward promoting the love of God and each other, yet they retain an anachronistic ancient fear of God and a preposterous eternal Hell. I am speechless at the absurdity of it.
I have no quarrel with the charitable works of mainstream churches. God bless them. I have no quarrel with the sincerity and decency of the majority of the members in churches. I simply cannot understand how they can accept the barbaric things they accept about God while professing His love for us. It is incomprehensible. The primary message and efforts of the church are geared toward promoting the love of God and each other, yet they retain an anachronistic ancient fear of God and a preposterous eternal Hell. I am speechless at the absurdity of it.
The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (αἰώνιον - a period of time, as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
Wherever you copied that from is wrong.
I am not wrong, but the nonsense you fill peoples heads with is absurdity at its best.
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First of all, the word aidios is used only twice in the New Testament. It is used in Romans 1:20 for God's eternal (aidios) power. And it is used in Jude 1:6 for the angels who are kept under eternal (aidios) bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.
Jude 1:6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept ineternal (aidios) bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
And I believe this was mentioned by me on several occasions.
Including the aspect of the messengers - who weren't angels.
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The angels who did not keep their own domain are the angels, the sons of God in Genesis 6:2-4 who took human wives and produced the Nephilim. Those angels are currently being kept under aidios (eternal) bonds until the time of their final judgment. And what is their final judgment? Jesus tells us in Matthew 25:41 that Satan and his angels (this includes the angels mentioned in Jude 1:6) will be sentenced to the eternal (aiónios) fire.
Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aiónios) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Do you understand? The word aidios is used for angels in Jude 1:6 who are kept under aidios bonds until a coming time of judgment at which time they will be sent to the aiónios fire.
Oh, I understand, it's those who remain or are kept in darkness that don't.
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They are being kept in aidios chains awaiting their final judgment which is aiónios fire which may not be actual fire, but some form of punishment. The word aiónios has a range of meaning which includes unending duration. And no less than the Greek/English Lexicon of the New Testament, known as BDAG after Bauer, Danker, Arnt, and Gingrich, state this. BDAG is the best Lexicon available in the English language. Depending on the context aiónios can mean any of the following as stated in BDAG.
1. pert. to a long period of time, long ago.
2. pert. to a period of time without beginning or end, eternal.
3. pert. to a period of unending duration, without end.
It is a fact that Philo used the word aioni with reference to eternity.
As to Philo, the sentence is in De Mundo, 7, en aioni de oute pareleluthen ouden, oute mellei, alla monon iphesteken. Such a definition needs no explanation: in eternity nothing is passed, nothing is about to be, but only subsists. This has the importance of being of the date and Hellenistic Greek of the New Testament, as the others give the regular, and at the same time philosophical force of the word, aion, aionios. On the Greek words for Eternity and Eternal
Secondly, you say, or the source you copied says, ''The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment.''
Correct to the bold, but not to your interpretation.
Quote:
The implied claim that those words have to appear in just those ways in order for eternal punishment to be a reality is an invalid claim. Matthew 25:46 refers to kolasin aiōnion - punishment eternal. Again, the word aiōnion has within its range of meaning the meaning of eternal. 2 Philippians 1:9 refers to olethron aiōnion - destruction eternal. Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be basanisthēsontai hēmeras kai nyktos eis tous aiōnas tōn aiōnōn - tormented day and night for the ages of the ages which refers to unending duration of torment.
No, it doesn't, it's merely that which is beyond the horizon.
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Now, again I remind you that in Jude 1:6 the word aidios which means eternal is used for a group of angels who are in aidios chains until the day of final judgement when they will be sent to the aiónios fire (Matthew 25:41,46). Therefore in this context aiónios cannot be of less duration than aidios.
On the other hand, in the context of Jude 1:6 aidios may not actually mean eternal since the angels in Jude 1:6 are kept in aidios chains UNTIL the judgment of the great day. But then the claim cannot be made that if 'eternal' was meant then the word aidios would have been used.
In the right context both aidios and aiónios have the meaning of unending duration.
No, they do not, but you are free to believe your eternal damnation theology.
Until, the day your chains are removed.
So, G-d wasn't holding sins against folks back then?...What changed where someone had to die on a cross?...
He didn't have to, it was inevitable...... they the Jew(sorry to tell you) didn't want the rule(a righteous rule) of the kingdom of God rule over them, they loved the biases, prejudices, mis conceptions, handed down traditions and man made doctrines to allow this.
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God
He didn't have to, it was inevitable...... they the Jew(sorry to tell you) didn't want the rule(a righteous rule) of the kingdom of God rule over them, they loved the biases, prejudices, mis conceptions, handed down traditions and man made doctrines to allow this.
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God
I don't believe a conservative church would be so devoted to charity. Especially someone so opposed to helping the less fortunate otherwise. Isn't this the same person who used to boast about Donald Trump being president in his signature?
The "good new" to these people is learning that many of the people who they can't get along with in this life are going to become toast after they die. That's the real good news to them because it means they can do anything they want, with no consequences. How twisted it is to believe that is good news.
They aren't fooling anyone.
But I feel sorry for the abusive parenting or whatever occurred that creates people who would believe in such an abusive god, or even speak of believing in it.
So, G-d wasn't holding sins against folks back then?...What changed where someone had to die on a cross?...
nothing changed.
they have the story wrong.
The description of sin is wrong.
We are born ignorant, not sinful.
Jesus came to teach. The final lesson was the cross, but it was never intended to be a standalone lesson, anymore than one lesson out of 180 classes in a chemistry class is.
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