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Old 02-11-2017, 10:05 PM
 
45,672 posts, read 27,291,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And that mandate is to follow Torah and improve yourself as a human being, this is what is meant by practicing righteousness...Practice makes perfect...You practice to the point where you do not need to abide by Torah because it is who you are now...Perfected...
Has nothing to do with being in a relationship with God...
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,404,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Has nothing to do with being in a relationship with God...
When you are a toddler, you learn to walk.
When you mature, you run with confidence.

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Old 02-12-2017, 04:06 AM
 
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This is something that WILL happen. Some of you are answering as if it might happen.

Therefore salvation does not mean what the Christians believe.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:09 AM
 
Location: central Florida
1,146 posts, read 650,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Can anyone please explain the meaning of this verse?

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy."

How is an unbelieving husband sanctified through marrying a believer? Are children also holy because of a believing parent?
Sanctification is not the same as salvation. Sanctification does not save. What is sanctification?

The definition generally accepted is that sancfification means 'separated unto God'. This description applies for physical objects such as decorations in a house of worship, the building itself, and the people who separate themselves for God because they believe. The activity of sanctification is generally observed as 'religious behavior'.

The scripture quoted above describes sanctification or religious behavior within the context of a family. One believing member of a family may succeed in influencing the other unbelieving members of a family with regard to the benefits of belief in God. However, each of those members is still ultimately responsible for their own decision to believe and to follow Christ. Salvation is only transferable from Christ to one who accepts Christ.

Holiness is not the same as salvation. Sanctification is not the same as salvation. Holiness/sanctification are only the actions we observe on the outside of a person. Inside may be pure devotion to God or it may be filthy imaginations and perversions. God knows.

A priest may be appear to be holy to his community for a while, until he's caught violating a child. Human holiness doesn't equal human salvation before God. It is appearance only and what it looks like may or may not immediatly reflect inner truth.

There are many TV preachers who claim to be sanctified and who display pretentions of holiness, but sanctification isn't salvation. Jimmy Baker, a one-time TV preacher in the 1980's was sent to jail because of real estate scams that he perpetrated upon believers. He pretended to be holy, but later admitted that he'd never read the Bible from cover to cover until he did so in prison.

Sanctification can be fake. If honest and true, it can also lead other members of a family to a saving belief in Christ. It depends a lot upon the people involved, but sanctification never transfers justification for salvation. Never.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:09 PM
 
45,672 posts, read 27,291,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
When you are a toddler, you learn to walk.
When you mature, you run with confidence.

Whether a toddler learns to walk or not... whether one matures or not... what does that have to do with whether or not a relationship exists?
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Whether a toddler learns to walk or not... whether one matures or not... what does that have to do with whether or not a relationship exists?
A parent-child relationship should change as the child grows up. Of course that entails growing up, which doesn't always happen, obviously.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,232,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
A parent-child relationship should change as the child grows up. Of course that entails growing up, which doesn't always happen, obviously.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,404,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
When you are a toddler, you learn to walk.
When you mature, you run with confidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Whether a toddler learns to walk or not... whether one matures or not... what does that have to do with whether or not a relationship exists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
A parent-child relationship should change as the child grows up. Of course that entails growing up, which doesn't always happen, obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Thank you, Nate.
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Old 02-12-2017, 10:19 PM
 
45,672 posts, read 27,291,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
A parent-child relationship should change as the child grows up. Of course that entails growing up, which doesn't always happen, obviously.
Wasn't discussing relationship dynamics... just the existence of a relationship.

Don't know why I bother...
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,944,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Wasn't discussing relationship dynamics... just the existence of a relationship.

Don't know why I bother...
And THAT is why you have NO idea what is being said. There IS a difference between a relationship with a child and with an adult, and THAT is the whole point of a "New Covenant," which you might have tumbled to if you actually thought about the meaning of "a schoolmaster to bring us TO Christ."
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