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No, I do not, jimmie. What exactly do you think I reject and why?
John 3:16-21 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
See bolded above.
I do not reject those words at all. If you do not believe Jesus and love God and each other, those parts of you will perish as dross in the refinement. We WILL reap whatever we sow, jimmie. If you are not proud of the YOU who in the past was unloving or inconsiderate or cruel or hurtful or harmful, neither is God. THAT part of you will not survive (and you shouldn't want it to). By this time in your life, you should realize that you are NOT all one thing or the other. We are a composite of all that we have been and done in our lives to this point, some of which is NOT very admirable. Only the loving parts of us will survive our death.
I do not reject those words at all. If you do not believe Jesus and love God and each other, those parts of you will perish as dross in the refinement. We WILL reap whatever we sow, jimmie. If you are not proud of the YOU who in the past was unloving or inconsiderate or cruel or hurtful or harmful, neither is God. THAT part of you will not survive (and you shouldn't want it to). By this time in your life, you should realize that you are NOT all one thing or the other. We are a composite of all that we have been and done in our lives to this point, some of which is NOT very admirable. Only the loving parts of us will survive our death.
The nature Jesus revealed is found by reading and understanding all His words.
Jesus left us His words AND His ACTIONS so we would know the true nature of God. Not everything in the Bible is from Jesus. We know what is from Jesus by comparing His DESCRIPTIONS of the nature of God (who IS love) with His actions, NOT with everything that men interpreted from the Bible, pretending that it is all the word of God. ONLY Jesus is the Word of God, NOT the Bible. His words and actions are unambiguous and contradict much of what is believed about God by our ignorant ancestors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
All of His words show that the Spirit is our guide and not subject to a book, but I guess that brings us to another question that I asked, since you indicate that where I fail is in recognizing that God is holy as well as love: how does "holy" invalidate what Jesus taught about God being love? You seem to see holy as separate from love.
Amen, nate! God IS love and God is Holy so they can NOT disagree or contradict. To love is to know God and what is holy. Pretending that holy is something different from love is man-made ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Jesus did NOT say the Spirit was our only guide.
Yes, He did, jimmie. The New Covenant was instituted because the Old Covenant "written in ink" and stone, FAILED. Why would God rely on words "written in ink" when they already failed. That is why Jesus abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" so we would NOT need anyone to teach us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
jimmiej, then YOU are the one adding to His words, because the promise was just for the Spirit. Anything else can ONLY be a tool for that Guide and in NO way bind the Spirit.
Why do you want to bind the Spirit to a book?
Amen. You are mistaken when you ignore what agape love tells you is in your heart in favor of what a book tells you, jimmie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
God's holiness means most will perish, according to Jesus, because they have not believed in His name. See John 3 and Matt. 7.
Jimmie, jimmie, jimmie . . . you can NOT possibly believe that nonsense if you believe God IS agape love. There is NO love mercy, or compassion in such a belief. It is pure cruelty, evil and vengeance. Wake up, jimmie. Let what God has "written in our hearts" be your guide, NOT the "precepts and doctrines of men" from a book.
This has got to simply be the BIGGEST PIECE OF BLASPHEME IN THE WORLD...
To "believe" god would create BILLIONS of people and that the majority will perish is like FRACKING WITHOUT LUBRICATION...
Remember the world wide flood? So it is hardly blasphemy and a sore reminder that following the crowd is not how anyone gets into Heaven, but believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior that we are saved and trusting Him as our Good Shepherd is the only way we can follow Him because He is in us to help us to.
How about recognizing the enormous price Jesus Christ, the Son of God, had paid for the wages of our sins and see the evil of all those billions of people who would rather not believe in Him to be delivered from their sins but live in them?
Religion is what man can do; the only one God implemented was Judaism to prove man cannot do it.
Christianity is about what God can do and that is through Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God. This is the Good News to man. The only Good News because what Christ went through is enough.
Sin separated us from God and if the emphasis was on man to bring himself to God; there would be the pride of life where the love of the Father is not in them as well as the flip side of that coin where doubt and shortcomings will always draw religious men back from God for they know they are not good enough.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Since man is condemned already as per John 3:18 for not believing the only way back to God the Father is through God the Son, because that is the only sin mankind will be convicted of as to why they are not going to Heaven ( John 16:7-12 )..........such an easy way out.. just surrender and trust Jesus Christ for everything; that you are saved simply for believing in Him and that you can trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you personally to follow Him is why Jesus Christ is the Good News to man and why the just shall live by faith.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Otherwise... there would be a lot of stuck ups in heaven while God just move to the limelight while everybody boast about how great they are. That is hardly Heaven at all. Sounds like hell to me.
I would rather believe God Whom provided the only way that gives Him all the credit for rather than jump through hurdles, even the ones that religious hypocrites have placed into christianity, so that even little children can trust Him for all things; salvation and for help in following Him since He is within us always.
Matthew 18:1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
See the hope in Christ for little children above in those 2 references? See why religious people must surrender in order to trust Jesus Christ for salvation and all things for living as His? This is His glory.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
So trust Jesus Christ today that you are saved simply for believing in Him and now that you are reconciled with God thru Jesus Christ, trust Him as your personal Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him because that is all a child can do when they come to and believe in Jesus Christ for all things.
Jesus left us His words AND His ACTIONS so we would know the true nature of God. Not everything in the Bible is from Jesus. We know what is from Jesus by comparing His DESCRIPTIONS of the nature of God (who IS love) with His actions, NOT with everything that men interpreted from the Bible, pretending that it is all the word of God. ONLY Jesus is the Word of God, NOT the Bible. His words and actions are unambiguous and contradict much of what is believed about God by our ignorant ancestors.
Jesus' actions include dying for our sins, something you deny.
Matt. 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Yes, He did, jimmie. The New Covenant was instituted because the Old Covenant "written in ink" and stone, FAILED. Why would God rely on words "written in ink" when they already failed. That is why Jesus abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" so we would NOT need anyone to teach us.
It wasn't the words written in ink that failed-it was man's heart which was wicked and deceitful.
Psalm 51
16
For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it;
You are not pleased with burnt offering.
17
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Jimmie, jimmie, jimmie . . . you can NOT possibly believe that nonsense if you believe God IS agape love. There is NO love mercy, or compassion in such a belief. It is pure cruelty, evil and vengeance. Wake up, jimmie. Let what God has "written in our hearts" be your guide, NOT the "precepts and doctrines of men" from a book.
You must come to an understanding of God's holiness and its consequences on God's actions. You ignore that and your theology is incomplete.
Remember the world wide flood? So it is hardly blasphemy and a sore reminder that following the crowd is not how anyone gets into Heaven, but believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior that we are saved and trusting Him as our Good Shepherd is the only way we can follow Him because He is in us to help us to.
How about recognizing the enormous price Jesus Christ, the Son of God, had paid for the wages of our sins and see the evil of all those billions of people who would rather not believe in Him to be delivered from their sins but live in them?
Religion is what man can do; the only one God implemented was Judaism to prove man cannot do it.
Christianity is about what God can do and that is through Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God. This is the Good News to man. The only Good News because what Christ went through is enough.
Sin separated us from God and if the emphasis was on man to bring himself to God; there would be the pride of life where the love of the Father is not in them as well as the flip side of that coin where doubt and shortcomings will always draw religious men back from God for they know they are not good enough.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Since man is condemned already as per John 3:18 for not believing the only way back to God the Father is through God the Son, because that is the only sin mankind will be convicted of as to why they are not going to Heaven ( John 16:7-12 )..........such an easy way out.. just surrender and trust Jesus Christ for everything; that you are saved simply for believing in Him and that you can trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you personally to follow Him is why Jesus Christ is the Good News to man and why the just shall live by faith.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Otherwise... there would be a lot of stuck ups in heaven while God just move to the limelight while everybody boast about how great they are. That is hardly Heaven at all. Sounds like hell to me.
I would rather believe God Whom provided the only way that gives Him all the credit for rather than jump through hurdles, even the ones that religious hypocrites have placed into christianity, so that even little children can trust Him for all things; salvation and for help in following Him since He is within us always.
Matthew 18:1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
See the hope in Christ for little children above in those 2 references? See why religious people must surrender in order to trust Jesus Christ for salvation and all things for living as His? This is His glory.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
So trust Jesus Christ today that you are saved simply for believing in Him and now that you are reconciled with God thru Jesus Christ, trust Him as your personal Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him because that is all a child can do when they come to and believe in Jesus Christ for all things.
So, you are saying that God's holiness requires Him to destroy the majority of the People He loves? Probably better than eternal torment, so I will give you THAT much, but how is it compatible with love? I see you saying that God's character is self-contradictory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
I rest my case. You do NOT mean all the characteristics Jesus taught about the Father. You wanted examples-you got 'em!
Let's examine our different perceptions of the scripture noted: the clear meaning is that the souls of sinners will be destroyed. YOU believe in eternal torment and YOU filter the idea through your dearly held doctrine. I believe that people will suffer the consequences of their actions, but will have the opportunity to learn and grow, otherwise such consequences are nothing more than vicious revenge. How do we differ in our denial of the clear meaning of the relevant scripture?
Let's examine our different perceptions of the scripture noted: the clear meaning is that the souls of sinners will be destroyed. YOU believe in eternal torment and YOU filter the idea through your dearly held doctrine.
You use that inflammatory language because you have no scriptural evidence to support your claim. It is, of course, utter nonsense. We spend considerable time, money and effort sharing the gospel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
I believe that people will suffer the consequences of their actions, but will have the opportunity to learn and grow, otherwise such consequences are nothing more than vicious revenge. How do we differ in our denial of the clear meaning of the relevant scripture?
Both Jesus and Paul tell us salvation after physical death is not possible.
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God IS love and God is Holy so they can NOT disagree or contradict. To love is to know God and what is holy. Pretending that holy is something different from love is man-made ignorance.
You use that inflammatory language because you have no scriptural evidence to support your claim. It is, of course, utter nonsense. We spend considerable time, money and effort sharing the gospel. 
