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Old 03-17-2008, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,387,585 times
Reputation: 261

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I in no way meant to insult Mary. I just dont hold her in as "high esteem, as diety" as catholics do. see, I believe Mary to be a virgin and to have loved God so, he noticed her devotion and chose her to give birth to the King of Kings, My personal belief of mary is, she was just a girl like me, if God chose to do great things through her ( of course nothing can compare to her role in history) then he can choose me as well ( please- not at all to compare myself to her, just an analogy) God can look at me and see me blessed, blessed to know the truth of scripture and to know His Son, personally, as my God and Savior and best friend.I understand cathilocs believe Mary to be a diety of sorts, I however, do not.
I do celebrate it on Christmas, and am well aware of his birth actually being in the spring/early summer, and that Jesus was probably a toddler before the Wise men gave Him a visit.
I am put off by you in assuming I wish to insult Mary, or your judgement on how I choose to celebrate My Savior. My insult was directed to the "church" not to the lovely woman who raised God in human form, what an honor she had. but my point remains the "church" places her on a pedistal.....the only one who should ever be raised up is truely her Son, Jesus Christ. and the "church" has the audacity (spelling) to tell me what a sin is. Do you study the bible and the languages used to transcribe it?? the word "sin" means to miss the mark, like in archery. "we all have sinned and fallen short" Romans I think. If I am guilty of one sin I am guilty of them all! and I am guilty, because the Bible says I am. and I believe the Bilble to be the infalable word of God. I am guilty. Jesus died for my sins, I am now born again (woo hoo).
Be careful next time you want to make assumptions on someone else, you may end up looking a fool. I agree whole heartedly regarding the discussion of Mary in this thread, I believed it waws on the vatican and new "sins".
I'm curious....what did you expect when you began this thread....everyone to believe as you do?? and if they did not, to insult their beliefs prematurely???

The bible tells us that we are part of one body, the body of Christ. I do not have the same role as you do, but if you believe, you and I are part of the same body. so....why so defensive on trivial things???
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
10,739 posts, read 32,669,227 times
Reputation: 6825
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBoet View Post
I should have read your profile before responding to your post the first time.
So your saying because I am not religious my view of what is being discussed is invalid?
I would argue that someone who can't see the difference between child molestation and adultry is the one who can't see the truth. If a person has blinders on where their church is concern, thats dangerous.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Miami, Fl
208 posts, read 467,529 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by nay624 View Post
I in no way meant to insult Mary. I just dont hold her in as "high esteem, as diety" as catholics do. see, I believe Mary to be a virgin and to have loved God so, he noticed her devotion and chose her to give birth to the King of Kings, My personal belief of mary is, she was just a girl like me, if God chose to do great things through her ( of course nothing can compare to her role in history) then he can choose me as well ( please- not at all to compare myself to her, just an analogy) God can look at me and see me blessed, blessed to know the truth of scripture and to know His Son, personally, as my God and Savior and best friend.I understand cathilocs believe Mary to be a diety of sorts, I however, do not.
I do celebrate it on Christmas, and am well aware of his birth actually being in the spring/early summer, and that Jesus was probably a toddler before the Wise men gave Him a visit.
I am put off by you in assuming I wish to insult Mary, or your judgement on how I choose to celebrate My Savior. My insult was directed to the "church" not to the lovely woman who raised God in human form, what an honor she had. but my point remains the "church" places her on a pedistal.....the only one who should ever be raised up is truely her Son, Jesus Christ. and the "church" has the audacity (spelling) to tell me what a sin is. Do you study the bible and the languages used to transcribe it?? the word "sin" means to miss the mark, like in archery. "we all have sinned and fallen short" Romans I think. If I am guilty of one sin I am guilty of them all! and I am guilty, because the Bible says I am. and I believe the Bilble to be the infalable word of God. I am guilty. Jesus died for my sins, I am now born again (woo hoo).
Be careful next time you want to make assumptions on someone else, you may end up looking a fool. I agree whole heartedly regarding the discussion of Mary in this thread, I believed it waws on the vatican and new "sins".
I'm curious....what did you expect when you began this thread....everyone to believe as you do?? and if they did not, to insult their beliefs prematurely???

The bible tells us that we are part of one body, the body of Christ. I do not have the same role as you do, but if you believe, you and I are part of the same body. so....why so defensive on trivial things???

Another misinformed Protestant

For the 10 millionth time people. Catholics do not worship Mary or hold her as a deity, a goddes. You have been listening too much to your Protestant pastor. Yes we hold her on a pedastal, but we hold Jesus on the peak of Mt Everest to put it into perspective. Of course Catholics hold Our Lady in "high esteem" as you put it because she is the mother of GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't you honour your mother more then other women? You said, "he noticed her devotion and chose her to give birth to the King of Kings". How noble of you to give so much credit to GOD. God didn't notice anything. HE knew her before she was more. Before the beginning of time. GOD had a plan for her as HE has a plan for you. Can't you see that? HE created her perfectly to be worthy enough to give birth to the Messiah. She is HIS materpiece. Her womb is sacred. That is why she remained virgin. She did not have children! You say you have your "personal believe of Mary". That's the problem, leave your personal believe out of it and read the scriptures. Anyone who believes in Jesus and follows him, "Mother of Jesus" is a title of honour and veneration, and will forever remain such in the faith and life of the Church. Amen!
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,387,585 times
Reputation: 261
you are blinded. scripture states "for ALL have sinned and fall short og the glory of GOD" Romans 3:23 not 'all, except for mary'.
your attitude kinda sucks. Romans 12:10 and 16.
Wheres the LOVE brotha??
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,387,585 times
Reputation: 261
there you go assuming again....seriously...haven't you ever heard....
never assume...it makes an ass out of u and me=ass u me...get it.

lets see... asuming I dont know a thing about predestination, ah Romans 8:28-30.
"And we know that in ALL things GOD works for the good of those who love Him, aho have beed called according to hos purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be comformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers (interesting). And those he predestined, he aslo called;
those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified."
Scripture supports Mary and Joseph had children. Scripture no where states Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus.

Why do you hate protestants so much??
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Miami, Fl
208 posts, read 467,529 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by nay624 View Post
there you go assuming again....seriously...haven't you ever heard....
never assume...it makes an ass out of u and me=ass u me...get it.

lets see... asuming I dont know a thing about predestination, ah Romans 8:28-30.
"And we know that in ALL things GOD works for the good of those who love Him, aho have beed called according to hos purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be comformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers (interesting). And those he predestined, he aslo called;
those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified."
Scripture supports Mary and Joseph had children. Scripture no where states Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus.

Why do you hate protestants so much??
The Church Fathers spoke of Mary as having remained a virgin throughout her life. The second Dogma proclaimed by the Church on Virgin Mary is her Perpetual Virginity, defined under anathema in the third canon of the Lateran Council held in the time of Pope Martin I, A.D. 649, insisting the Council that Mary remained "ever-Virgin"... Virgin Mary was a virgin before, during, and perpetually after the birth of Christ (Ante partum, in partu, post partum), a belief also re-asserted during the first decades of the Protestant reformation.

Even before that, the Council of Constantinople II (553-554) twice referred to Mary as "ever-virgin."... other Councils also refer to the perpetual Virginity of Mary as ever-Virgin, and the Dogmas proclaiming the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption also refer to Mary as ever-Virgin.

It is obvious that Jesus did not have any other brothers nor sisters, because at Calvary Jesus had to entrust His Mother to a friend, to John, " and from that moment the disciple took her to his own home" (Jn.19:27).
It would be unthinkable for a Jewish mother to go to live with a friend after the death of her son, if she had any other child of her own!... impossible!.

I don't hate Protestants. In fact the Protestant Reformers affirmed their belief that Mary, while remaining every-virgin, was truly the Mother of God:

Martin Luther (1483-1546):

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. ... Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

The French reformer John Calvin (1509-1564):

It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor. ... Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary as at the same time the eternal God. (Calvini Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Braunschweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, v. 45, p. 348, 35.)

Calvin also upheld the perpetual virginity of Mary.

The Swiss reformer, Ulrich Zwingli (1484-1531), wrote:

I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin. (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 1, p. 424.)


Nowhere in scripture does it say that Jesus had biological siblings. Nowhere! The term brethren was used to describe anyone close to Jesus. Perhaps a cousin, half-brother, disciple.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,387,585 times
Reputation: 261
you do realize you have used non-biblical references.......and Church history I may in fact respect the "lineage of the church from Peter", I dont give it any importance.
use the scripture to convince me.
1) ok If the scripture does not support mary had other children , and you hold that to be true....why not
2) hold true that the scripture does not support she remained a virgin....
you cant pick and choose what is relevant in scripture.

and as for Mary not being treated as diety, why pray to her??(the rosary)

The WORD of GOD will hold fast, not mans opinion...
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,387,585 times
Reputation: 261
N-E Ways arent we supposed to be on track here...the Vatacan...right.
are we done with Mary, or do you wish to continue. I realize you will not convince me Marys role in the catholic church being "just and true". So.... are you able to agree that we disagree??? curious...
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:52 PM
 
Location: USA
322 posts, read 674,349 times
Reputation: 117
If I may jump into this classic catholic/non-catholic discussion, I'd like to speak. There is nothing wrong with the fact that Mary (with Joseph) concieved children after the birth of our LORD JESUS. I am a living eyewitness of the Messiah Yashua. I have seen Him with my eyes. In His holy presence I say that His mother and Joseph naturally became the parents of the brothers of our LORD JESUS after the birth of CHRIST. That fact in no way contradicts the sanctification of Mary. It is perfectly right that couples joined in holy matrimony have sex together. That in no way changes the holiness of Mary. But, having more to say about Ms Marys private life with her husband than is gentlemanly to say, might draw a strong rebuke, even from Ms Mary.Bless you all who truely love our LORD JESUS!
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Southern Ca
756 posts, read 2,387,585 times
Reputation: 261
Thank you Joe...like I said before. All One body....just different parts. Amen!
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