Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is directed at Preterist or anyone that understands that particular doctrine...What exactly is preterism?! And if you believe that Christ returned in the first century, where does that leave us now? I have always questioned the statements from Jesus in the bible about returning "soon" and how "some here will not taste death till I return"....Just really curious as I have never heard of preterism till I came to CD.
Thanks!
The three most common approaches to Revelation are this:
1. Futurism --- places the fulfillment of the prophecies mainly to a short time at the end of the world.
2. Preterism --- places the fulfillment largely to the Roman Empire of the days of the early church.
3. Amillenialism --- (the historical teaching of the book of Revelation) places the whole time from Christ’s first to second comings, (Chapter 12 is most clear about that). At times, Revelation and end time prophecies (OT & NT) have dual applications, AKA "telescoping prophecy". For example: Jesus would prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem and then use it as an example for the destruction of the world, sometimes the blend of the two are mixed.
Futurism has two basic views within itself:
A. Pre-millenial dispensationalism
B. Post-millenial dispensationalism
From what I can gather, preterism is the "other extreme" to futurism. What they both have in common is that they limit Revelation to a time period then try interpet those events to a certian passage instead of understanding some of the prophecies have telescoping nature and application. Then when the Van Impe's or books like "left behind" make fools of themselves, it empowers the other camp. And conversely, when one claims Christ returned already, using the arguement from words like "this", "soon"..empowers the other.
Then when the Van Impe's or books like "left behind" make fools of themselves, it empowers the other camp. And conversely, when one claims Christ returned already, using the arguement from words like "this", "soon"..empowers the other.
Well that's TS's opinion, nothing else. Since the preterist war hasn't begun yet, I figured I'd put my 2 cents in. I happen to agree with the Van Impe's and watch their show every week. I appreciate their fervor and Jack's enthusiasm for the Word of God. He has every single chapter and verse memorized. He's got it right imo and they may be a hard pill to swallow at first but once you watch them and learn how much they love the Lord you realize what Godly people they really are. You can even learn to get past Rexella's squeaky voice.
AND the Left Behind series.....excellent books and movies. You have to be able to discern that they are fictional characters, a "possible scenario" to how the Rapture events will unfold. It's great, imaginative, story-telling of a VERY REAL Biblical event that will take place. I own all three movies, and I recommend them to anyone who is wanting to know more about the Rapture and how it could maybe, possibly take place.
Now that is a true futurist, OPTIMISTIC view.
You asked for a preterist view on what the Bible says about the following scripture, but to be fair you need to hear all sides:
Matthew 16:28
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Mark 9:1
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
As you can see, it's mentioned 3 times in 3 different books. It's very important to understand those particular times and how Jesus spoke. He spoke in parables and he spoke mostly in a way that the people of His time could not understand what he meant. Why do you suppose that is? Because His words were mostly not directed to His generation....they were meant for all generations and certain understandings of certain things would not and could not be understood until God meant for it to be understood and when knowledge increased.
Knowledge has increased. The time is here "NOW" and Jesus is coming "SOON". What Jesus meant when He spoke those words is that the final generation, OUR generation, will not die before His return. If you look at it in terms of prophecy being fulfilled (there are many good resources to find out what prophecies) and the SUPER "SIGN" of Israel being reborn in 1948, OUR generation since 1948 is aging out. Our life spans are approximately 70 years, and it's been 61 years since 1948. Okay, so.....There is a tribulation period of 7 years. General math tells us that we may have at the most, based on the Biblical teaching that mankind only lives around 70 years because that's how God wanted it, we have a window of only 2 years before the Rapture happens. And roughly 9 years before Jesus' second coming and the end of the world as we know it.
Don't ask anyone for answers except God Himself....go to the Word of God and study, study, study for yourself. Interpretations are not the point. The point is, the only point that matters, is knowing Jesus Christ, living a spotless and blameless life and getting your house in order!!!
Hallelujah!!! Jesus is COMING SOON and I've given you a time frame to what "SOON" really means!!!
This is directed at Preterist or anyone that understands that particular doctrine...What exactly is preterism?! And if you believe that Christ returned in the first century, where does that leave us now? I have always questioned the statements from Jesus in the bible about returning "soon" and how "some here will not taste death till I return"....Just really curious as I have never heard of preterism till I came to CD.
Thanks!
Hi DaniMae1,
Preterism simply means past. The events in the bible are simply considered to have occurred rather than something that will occur in the future. Some people find themselves at any particular point. Even what is know as a futurist believes the same. Any prophesy about Jesus' visitation is past. So a preterist is relative and not all are full preterist.
I find the two points of view are such that one believes time like soon, now, at the door, are literal or that, stars falling from the sky, whole world, mountains melting etc are literal. Thus we have:
Preterist: The Bible says it happened soon thus it happened quickly and such and such event may describe it. If it says "a mountain shall fall" and we see a kingdom fell in that time or context, and we see a mountain used as a metaphor, then a preterist view is that it was about that kingdom. Thus time is preserved while the metaphor is granted.
Futurist: We do not see the mountain fall. Thus the event is yet future. The time element is a conditional or relative to a point of view. God's view of time is not man's view of time. Thus the metaphor or misunderstanding of time is granted and the mountain is expected to fall within the context.
It boils down to which metaphorical system seems appropriate.
I am a preterist and in reality the most devastating to the logic of futurism are verses such as:
James 5
9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[c] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!
Here we have a metaphor for the nearness of time. "At the door" is not literal. Thus we see that metaphors were abundant in that culture. Yet the metaphor's meaning is clearly near. It certainly would be difficult if we have metaphor's that don't even mean what they imply. I have not seen that form of communication.
Here we have a frequently addressed verse that has not been observed, or so its assumed, literally. Thus the futurism paradigm posits this must be future.
Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Preterism asks, is this a metaphor? How can we know?
Ezekiel 32
I will therefore spread My net over you with a company of many people,
And they will draw you up in My net.
4 Then I will leave you on the land;
I will cast you out on the open fields,
And cause to settle on you all the birds of the heavens.
And with you I will fill the beasts of the whole earth.
5 I will lay your flesh on the mountains,
And fill the valleys with your carcass.
6 ‘ I will also water the land with the flow of your blood, Even to the mountains;
And the riverbeds will be full of you.
7 When I put out your light, I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark;
I will cover the sun with a cloud,
And the moon shall not give her light.
8 All the bright lights of the heavens I will make dark over you,
And bring darkness upon your land,’
Says the Lord GOD.
If you look as this section of scripture we see the same metaphor yet we also see this combined with God's net. It is also in an interposed section of poetic imagery.
Again just above it.
‘ You are like a young lion among the nations,
And you are like a monster in the seas,
Bursting forth in your rivers,
Troubling the waters with your feet,
And fouling their rivers.’
The power of God's words were put into metaphor. Is it reasonable to assume God's net is or was literal?
Thus I conclude Matthew 24 is not entirely literal as well.
However in Josephus we do have some witness of an event "in the clouds":
I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."
Josephus, Wars of the Jews, Book 6, Chapter 5.
There are several in Tacitus as well.
I hope I have explained the differences to your satisfaction.
God Bless.
This is directed at Preterist or anyone that understands that particular doctrine...What exactly is preterism?! And if you believe that Christ returned in the first century, where does that leave us now? I have always questioned the statements from Jesus in the bible about returning "soon" and how "some here will not taste death till I return"....Just really curious as I have never heard of preterism till I came to CD.
Thanks!
It will leave you without H-O-P-E! That............... this it for you! No Blessed Hope! That He came and the entire bible was for a selected few.
Really?
It will leave you without H-O-P-E! That............... this it for you! No Blessed Hope! That He came and the entire bible was for a selected few.
Really?
Hi Betsey Lane,
Does that not define a special generation to be raptured? If we are not raptured then we have no hope it would appear you are saying. Generation after generation have died with no hope.
I had never heard of preterism either, but after reading about it I believe it is a lie straight from the devil. It is not Biblical, it is not what the Bible teaches.
2 Timothy 3:3-4 "For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever they want to hear. They will reject the truth and follow strange myths".
Jan-Feb 1997issue of Perhaps Today:
Van Impe claimed that the year 2001 “will see the start of the Great Tribulation. Political chaos, natural disasters, nuclear war and the worldwide rise of Islam will usher in mankind's final hour”
-------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1998---Jack van Impe
predicts that tumultuous events will happen about 2000. The antichrist will appear, and cause a 7 year period of world wide distress called the Tribulation. This will be followed by the Battle ofArmageddon and the second coming.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Van Impe Show, September 28, 1998:
"An article in the January-February 1993 issue of Perhaps Today magazine included a detailed chronology to demonstrate that the Lord will probably return in September of 1999 ... Let’s figure that out again–1948.5 plus 51.4 equals 1999.9–around September of the year 1999." JVI
"Now, we are not date-setters! Of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not he angels of heaven, but my father only (Matthew 24:36). But wait! Don’t say, `No one can know the APPROXIMATE time when Christ will return,’ for Jesus also said in verse 33 that we will know when it is near, even at the doors.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Van Impe Presents October 5, 1998,
”Now, Nostradamus said that the king of terror would appear November of 1999. I believe Nostradamus knew his bible and knew what the six-day theory was, and so he could put it all together.”
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prior to January 1, 2000, Van Impe frequently predicted widespread global catastrophes and destruction resulting from the Y2K problem, which he believed to be a fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
------------------------------------------------------------------
He recently indicated 2012 as a possible date for the Rapture. He is basing this prediction on the Mayan calendar ending
I had never heard of preterism either, but after reading about it I believe it is a lie straight from the devil. It is not Biblical, it is not what the Bible teaches.
2 Timothy 3:3-4 "For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever they want to hear. They will reject the truth and follow strange myths".
"In 44 AD, Theudas declared himself the Messiah, taking 400 people with him into the desert. T(headus) beheaded by Roman soldiers. Josephus records this."
You will also see that the "predictors" really become popular when the calander number was nearing 1000 and 1900 (thanks to the JW's) and now 2000. There is nothing new but just the people who promote it and the people who listen to it.
The Bible teaches that since pentecost, as far as God is concerned, we are in the last times. When the one and only great day of the Lord happens, all who are living and have ever lived will know it....the end. No two second comings, no two judgements, no literal 1000 year reign, no being able to read the tea leaves ( i.e. news media). It will be sudden, quick and final.
These guys like Impe, Lidsay and "left behind" with their predictions should follow the title and be left behind.
They also fulfill 2 Timothy 3:3-4
reps to you my friend!
Last edited by twin.spin; 03-01-2009 at 10:11 PM..
Reason: thoughts
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe you still have time to delete this thread.
