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Old 11-21-2017, 08:23 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,020,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
If endless punishment were true & victims of infanticide all go to heaven, then infanticide saves infants from any chance of growing up & going to endless torments or annihilation.

Should a loving parent, therefore, kill their infants before they reach an age at which God would hold them accountable?

"Evangelicals are divided in their opinion about the fate of infants who die.

"Some, who believe in God's sovereign election of the "few," also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. John Calvin said, "there are babies a span long in hell."

"Others consider this unfair, and assert that infants who die will spend eternity in heavenly bliss. This of course is true, but not because the child is innocent. It's true because the Scriptures teach that God intends to save everyone from everything that they need to be saved from.

"A few years ago there was a story in a Montreal paper about an Ohio lady who drowned her baby in a bathtub. Her defense was that she loved the baby so much that she wanted to make sure that her child would not have to suffer forever in hell. After serving a sentence she remarried, had another child and drowned it for the same reason. She trusted that God would forgive her because her intention, though warped by false theology, was for the good of her children.

"The jury decided that she was mentally ill, BUT WAS SHE? The simple pragmatic fact remains that if Arminianism is right, her two infants will spend eternity in heavenly bliss because she loved them so much that she insured, by killing them, that this will be so.

"Apparently, many Christians believe that there is a magical split-second in time before which a child, if they die, will go to heaven, and after which, if they die will spend eternity suffering in hell. They call this the "age of accountability."

"If I believed this nonsense I would take a gun into the largest maternity ward in Toronto and, before the police arrived, kill every infant who had just been born. This would cause an enormous amount of suffering to the parents, but this wouldn't matter much in the long run, because probably most of them (according to evangelical theology) are destined to suffer forever in hell anyway, so why not save their babies from the same fate?

"Don't try to argue that what I would be doing would be wrong ("thou shalt not kill"). The fact remains that my act would, in fact insure the eternal salvation of the babies. If Arminianism is right, then infanticide would certainly be one of the most effective ways of "saving souls." Besides, God forgives murder, especially when it is done for such a noble, though misguided cause. Sure, they would lock me away in an institution, but I would spend my life revelling in the glow of the emotional high of knowing that I had, beyond any shadow of a doubt guaranteed the salvation of the babies that I had killed.

"Folks, the actual truth about the matter is much more sane and blessed. The Scriptures teach that salvation is all of the Lord, and He will not fail to save every one of us according to His own timing. No one will be able to boast in His presence and say, "I have saved myself from eternal hell by exercising my faith in God's provision. God will get all of the glory for everyone's salvation.

"The important issue never should be "what is right or what is wrong." The only really important issue is, "What is God going to do with the person who is wrong?" The Scriptures teach that God will fit every one of us into His master plan in a positive way, and He will use our temporary involvement with sin to teach us the lessons that He wants us to learn. As my Dad often says, "That's what makes Him God!" "

Can Children Go to Hell?
I'm having a hard time understanding what the main point is that you're asking. Is it the question of if all children go to heaven? Or some go to hell?

We are sinners not because we sin, but we sin because we're sinners. We inherited a sin nature from Adam--and that is why we must be born again--into Christ. When we are saved, we are saved from a sinful nature -- we are regenerated. There are undoubtedly some babies that do not get saved. They go to hell not for an act of sin, but based on their sinful nature. There are some that will be saved because God willed it to be so.

Psalm 22:9 says that we can even believe as a baby. We assume that we can't be saved until we reach some mythical age of accountability, but the fact is, God saves, not our confession of faith. God can choose whom he wants to save, based on his will.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,360,776 times
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If endless punishment were true...? It's not!
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:32 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,398,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
If endless punishment were true...? It's not!
True.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:51 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,020,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
If endless punishment were true...? It's not!
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
True.
You guys ought to read the bible sometime.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,184,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You guys ought to read the bible sometime.
LOL.

"Reading the bible" is why there's thousands of denominations and thousands more non-denominational sub-sects of Christianity.

All of them squabbling and demonstrating the discord and strife resulting from "reading the bible."
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:23 AM
 
1,419 posts, read 1,048,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You guys ought to read the bible sometime.
Amen: Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages.. probably start with reading the Gospel of John
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:26 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,187,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
LOL.

"Reading the bible" is why there's thousands of denominations and thousands more non-denominational sub-sects of Christianity.

All of them squabbling and demonstrating the discord and strife resulting from "reading the bible."
... and at the end of the day, none of the squabbling will make a bit of difference - as God is not sitting in heaven waiting for us to figure it out.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,184,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
... and at the end of the day, none of the squabbling will make a bit of difference - as God is not sitting in heaven waiting for us to figure it out.
On that, we can agree.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:34 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,020,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
On that, we can agree.
Not too late for you to receive forgiveness for your sin, Trout.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,360,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
If endless punishment were true...? It's not!
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You guys ought to read the bible sometime.
There is nothing about everlasting or eternal punishment.
And your lack of understanding that is not very persuasive.
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