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Old 12-29-2017, 03:15 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 909,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
You have it correct.........Jesus and Paul are both right.

Jesus taught under the law to Israel ONLY

Jesus sent Paul to explain mysteries and teach grace to Gentiles

So simple......
Since Jesus sent His disciples with His words as He was sent and to all the nations it is not possible He sent Paul with a different message. Jesus said His disciples abide in His words. It is rather obvious Paul did not continue and abide in Jesus words.

Therefore Jesus did not send Paul.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:17 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,932 posts, read 26,160,446 times
Reputation: 16087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free4you View Post
Christianity says Paul taught we are saved by Grace and faith.

Jesus said we are saved by works.
No, Jesus did not teach that we are saved by works. Read what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman in John 4:7-15. He told her that the water, with reference to eternal life, that He gives, was a gift and that all she had to do was to ask and He would give it to her.

Then in John 6:27-29, Jesus is speaking to a crowd and speaks of works. But when asked by the crowd what those ''works of God'' were that they could do them, Jesus tells them that the work of God is to believe in Him for eternal life.

In John 6:40 Jesus states that everyone who beholds and believes in Him will have eternal life.

When speaking of discipleship and picking up your cross and following Him, Jesus spoke of works. But when speaking of eternal life, He was clear that eternal salvation is through faith in Him.

As for the rich young ruler in Matthew 19:16-26, his question to Jesus was based on what he thought he needed to do in order to obtain eternal life. Jesus' reply was intended to address the fact that it is impossible to obtain eternal life by trying to keep the law (or do 'works') because no one can keep the law perfectly. And actually, telling the young man to sell all that he owned and give it to the poor was not part of the Mosaic law. But Jesus knew that wealth was the young man's achilles heel and that he was unwilling to give up that wealth. In reality, all the young man had to do was to trust in Jesus.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:19 PM
 
18,846 posts, read 6,863,248 times
Reputation: 3535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
You have it correct.........Jesus and Paul are both right.

Jesus taught under the law to Israel ONLY

Jesus sent Paul to explain mysteries and teach grace to Gentiles

So simple......
Actually, Abraham was saved by faith. He was considered righteous because he believed God. Not because of his obedience.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:25 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,932 posts, read 26,160,446 times
Reputation: 16087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free4you View Post
Since Jesus sent His disciples with His words as He was sent and to all the nations it is not possible He sent Paul with a different message. Jesus said His disciples abide in His words. It is rather obvious Paul did not continue and abide in Jesus words.

Therefore Jesus did not send Paul.
It seems that you're another one of those 'Paul was a false prophet' people. You stand in opposition to the other apostles and the first century church who held Paul in high esteem as a man who risked his life for the 'name of our Lord Jesus Christ' (Acts 15:25-26).

Luke writes in Acts that the Holy Spirit told the church at Antioch to set aside Barnabas and Saul (Paul) for the work which He had called them (Acts 13:1-4).

Unless you think that God made a mistake in choosing Paul you might want to reconsider your opinion about Paul.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:26 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 909,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Nonsense. Jesus never said that.
What about;

"By your words you'll be justified and by your words you'll be condemned."

Or.

"He who believes in me shall do the works I do..... "

Or.

"If you continue in my word you are truly my disciple... "

Or.

"Genuine worshipers shall worship spirit and in truth."

Or.

"My does not live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God. "

Or.

"The man who comes to me hears my word and uses it. "

Or.

"As you sent me into the world so l sent them into the world. "

Or.

"If you abide in me and my words abide in you, you may ask what you will and it shall be done for you. My Father is glorified in your bearing much fruit and becoming my disciple. "
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:29 PM
 
18,846 posts, read 6,863,248 times
Reputation: 3535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free4you View Post
What about;

"By your words you'll be justified and by your words you'll be condemned."

Or.

"He who believes in me shall do the works I do..... "

Or.

"If you continue in my word you are truly my disciple... "

Or.

"Genuine worshipers shall worship spirit and in truth."

Or.

"My does not live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God. "

Or.

"The man who comes to me hears my word and uses it. "

Or.

"As you sent me into the world so l sent them into the world. "

Or.

"If you abide in me and my words abide in you, you may ask what you will and it shall be done for you. My Father is glorified in your bearing much fruit and becoming my disciple. "
Not a single reference you quoted says we are saved by works. On the other hand, Jesus said that of those the Father gives him, he would lose none. We are given by the Father to HIM and he said he would not lose us. We don't place ourselves in his hand by obedience--but obedience does demonstrate who is and is not in him.

So....yes, those that abide in him are his. Those that don't show they are not his. It's easy to understand.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:29 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 909,338 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It seems that you're another one of those 'Paul was a false prophet' people. You stand in opposition to the other apostles and the first century church who held Paul in high esteem as a man who risked his life for the 'name of our Lord Jesus Christ' (Acts 15:25-26).

Luke writes in Acts that the Holy Spirit told the church at Antioch to set aside Barnabas and Saul (Paul) for the work which He had called them (Acts 13:1-4).

Unless you think that God made a mistake in choosing Paul you might want to reconsider your opinion about Paul.
Jesus's teaching proves Paul did not follow Him regardless of others views.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:34 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 909,338 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Not a single reference you quoted says we are saved by works. On the other hand, Jesus said that of those the Father gives him, he would lose none. We are given by the Father to HIM and he said he would not lose us. We don't place ourselves in his hand by obedience--but obedience does demonstrate who is and is not in him.

So....yes, those that abide in him are his. Those that don't show they are not his. It's easy to understand.
That is the point. We are not saved by faith but by works.

No one knows the Son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the Son and to whomever the Son will reveal Him.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:40 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Not a single reference you quoted says we are saved by works. On the other hand, Jesus said that of those the Father gives him, he would lose none. We are given by the Father to HIM and he said he would not lose us. We don't place ourselves in his hand by obedience--but obedience does demonstrate who is and is not in him.

So....yes, those that abide in him are his. Those that don't show they are not his. It's easy to understand.
There is not a single scripture which say we saved from hell too, but you wholeheartedly believe you are saved from hell.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:43 PM
 
18,846 posts, read 6,863,248 times
Reputation: 3535
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There is not a single scripture which say we saved from hell too, but you wholeheartedly believe you are saved from hell.
Why must you try to hijack every thread to whine about the doctrine of hell? Good grief.
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