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The other poster just said, Jesus was the Lamb of God.
Which one is it? The son or the lamb?
A human's son is always a human. A ram's son will always be lamb. A Fish's son will always be a fish. And from the same logic, A God's son will always be a God.
So Is Jesus the God? God's son or the Lamb of God?
The Lord Jesus in many ways said that he is God. first OT he made this statement. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". the Lord Jesus said, "IN THAT DAY". what day was that? answer, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". the Lord Jesus said it in the OT and again when he came in flesh "I AM HE". can we confirm this day? the prophet Isaiah saw it. Isaiah 6:1-4 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory 4 "And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke" this vision of the LORD is confirmed by the gospel writer John. John 12:41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him". that was the Lord Jesus who Isaiah saw.
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he. the only Saviour is the LORD all cap, whom Isaiah saw, scripture, Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". and the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" saviour.
after his resurrection he clearly defined who he is Glorified. he is the "First and the Last". there is only one "First and Last". Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". the only Redeemer is the Lord Jesus.
PCJ
Last edited by mensaguy; 01-04-2018 at 06:14 AM..
Reason: Quit usiing red text
“Destroy this temple, and I will raise itagain in three days.”
They replied,
“It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
But the temple he had spoken of was his body."
Jesus said he will raise himself from the dead ... and despite their efforts to prove him wrong ... he burst their hubris efforts.
What did Jesus say to those who had the same reaction:
John 8:43-45
"Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! " ~ Jesus to the unbelieving Jews
Just think logically for a second and lets try to put two and two together.
You believe in God, right? So do I.
Now we know that God is super mighty and ultra powerful with no limits to his power. He is merciful and he also has wrath. He rewards and he can punish.
He owns the heavens and the hell. And God is not answerable to anyone. Agreed?
If yes, then no human in the entire mankind can dare to say NO or to REJECT God IF he was standing face to face in front of God.
If Jesus said he was God (which I believe, he did not), then there are two possibles. Either he WAS God or he was NOT God. Correct?
So, If Jesus WAS actually a God then the Jews who lived in the era of Jesus would have absolutely NO WAY to reject him and/or refuse to follow him (refer to blue text above). Which automatically concludes to scenario 2. Jesus was not God. He can't be God otherwise, there would have be no Jews left in the world. Everyone would have accepted Christianity.
To me, it seems like whoever wrote this in the gospel that "Jesus said, I am God" - has actually lied and mislead the followers of Jesus.
Which brings us back to my original OP - Why can't Christians still stay Christians if they simply believe that Jesus is the prophet of God and NOT God himself or the son of God. I think they can still stay Christians.
You ignore the fact that God gave man volition and that God does not normally interfere with that volition. Despite what you believe, Jesus did claim to be God. Some of His 'I am' statements are His claim to deity, as for example in John 8:58 when He said that ''before Abraham was born, I am.'' He didn't say before Abraham was born, I was, He said ''I am.'' He was stating His pre-existence, and His ''I am'' statement goes right back to Old Testament passages such as Isaiah 43:13; 44:6; 45:7,18,22. And the Jews knew that Jesus was claiming to be God and said so as recorded in John 10:33. Furthermore, as I stated in post # 3, Jesus claimed to be God when He told Caiaphas that he would see Him coming on the clouds. From post #3;
His statement recorded in Matthew 26:64, as well as Mark 14:62 when He told Caiaphas, the high priest that he would see Him (Jesus) coming on the clouds of heaven was also a statement of His deity. To understand that, you have to understand that in Canaanite religion the god Baal had as one of his titles, 'the cloud rider.' The Old Testament writers took the term and applied it to Yahweh as a polemic against Baal. Yahweh is referred to as the cloud rider/rider of the heavens in several Old Testament verses (Isaiah 19:1; Deuteronomy 33:26; Psalm 68:33; 104:3). But in one verse, Daniel 7:13 that title is applied to the Son of Man. Jesus quoted Daniel 7:13 as His answer to Caiaphas and thus claimed to be the cloud rider and therefore God.
Here's an article by Old Testament and ANE scholar Michael Heiser explaining the cloud rider concept. If you've done any comparative religious studies comparing the Old Testament with the Ancient Near East religions you shouldn't have any trouble understanding that Jesus was claiming to be God by identifying Himself as the cloud rider.
And so yes, Jesus did claim to be God, and then there is the fact that the New Testament writers said that Jesus is God. I provided those verses in post #3 as well.
It seems pinacled said that he was sorry for what they did to you, and you ask, Do what?..., where that's not the question to ask of him. He said he was sorry for what they did to you, and whatever he means by that, to some it seems you just take way too many drugs.
Now, don't blame him for what I said, but you do seem somewhat whacked out of your mind half of the time. The rest is a waste of time to even try to explain. You're a drain on this forum, just like some of the others might see it that way, so go do something else besides asking stupid questions and making the dumbest statements.
Originally Posted by pinacled
I am sorry for what they did to you.
It seems pinacled said that he was sorry for what they did to you, and you ask, Do what?..., where that's not the question to ask of him. He said he was sorry for what they did to you, and whatever he means by that, to some it seems you just take way too many drugs.
Now, don't blame him for what I said, but you do seem somewhat whacked out of your mind half of the time. The rest is a waste of time to even try to explain. You're a drain on this forum, just like some of the others might see it that way, so go do something else besides asking stupid questions and making the dumbest statements.
Originally Posted by pinacled
I am sorry for what they did to you.
You’re such a nice Christian...It’s not my problem that you’re a shallow thinker...
“Destroy this temple, and I will raise itagain in three days.”
They replied,
“It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
But the temple he had spoken of was his body."
Jesus said he will raise himself from the dead ... and despite their efforts to prove him wrong ... he burst their hubris efforts.
What did Jesus say to those who had the same reaction:
John 8:43-45
"Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! " ~ Jesus to the unbelieving Jews
“Destroy this temple, and I will raise itagain in three days.”
They replied,
“It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
But the temple he had spoken of was his body."
Jesus said he will raise himself from the dead ... and despite their efforts to prove him wrong ... he burst their hubris efforts.
What did Jesus say to those who had the same reaction:[indent]John 8:43-45
"Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! " ~ Jesus to the unbelieving Jews
Additionally, Jesus made this statement concerning His authority to both lay down His life and to take it up again.
John 10:18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
Jesus is both God and man. He died as a man. Deity cannot die. As God, Jesus' deity participated in raising His human body from the grave.
In John 10:18, Jesus says (with regards to His life): "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again."
You’re such a nice Christian...It’s not my problem that you’re a shallow thinker...
sorry Richard we don't condemn baby Christians around here especially when they are still seeking to learn. which around here is such a rarity.. !!!!!!!!!
we and she don't need your approval to be here and talk about our Lord and the creator of all.
so Goodbye don't let the door hit you in the fanny as you leave ok! especially if you are going to speak that way to the baby Christians around here.
and that goes for all the militant Atheists and the Anti-theists.
I say us Christians start putting these trolls on the Ignore list in your control center. some of our moderators won't keep trolls away and true politics. I say we don't feed the trolls folks, any of them !!
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