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Dude.....God started the Creation of Mankind which became flawed. That includes your average Joe, Hindu and Rastafarian (?) plus anybody else you want to add in the mix .
The Potter made ..."of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour"...."vessels of wrath fitted to destruction"...and ..."vessels of mercy"...
Note..." Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles"
Hos 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
God did know mankind would fall short simply because mankind had the ability of intelligence to make , as gods, (lower case g) its own choices.
So He fixed it!
Jesus fixed it. Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Hey, even if you don't believe in my godling.......he believes in you.
Very simple , Richard.
A robot created can only make a determination based on information imput. Has no soul. Meaning no personality or charactor.
Can not lust, have desire, want, hate, love, feel pain, feel happiness, sadness and most of all, cannot duplicate itself with any of those God like qualities.
That makes mankind into a flawed spieces simply because he is placed into a world of the flesh that caters only to fleshly desires.
Don't get me wrong, God did not created a flawed vessel because everything God created He saw that it was good.
The vessel became flawed because as soon as he ate, ingested knowledge, his weakness was the flesh.
Adam , = God's breath
Eve = fleshly vessel (clay)
Which one of the two suppose was Adams weakness? Account on who ate first....right?
The fall is not the fault of God's created process but the created having been made in the image ( processing God like qualities) and being in the flesh come short of perfection.
God fully understood the consequences of that happening.
Evidence of that is when He took the Tree of life out of the garden guarranteeing that mankind be tested by the environment it was placed in.
Mankind was rendered hopeless and in dire need of redemption because in it's current state of weakness, it could not possibly meet the requirements for perfection.
Hope......enters the world in a perfect state. Made of the same lump of clay as Adam........a second Adam......Jesus.
The difference being is that Jesus is God-in-carnste of which this world had no influence on Him.
Jesus was perfect and suitable as a sacrifical lamb.
He not only came to reveal who He was, by mirroring the Father's will, but also to offer Himself as a ransom Sacrifice, for all mankind.
He took the penality of eternal death away from mankind and offered eternal life instead as a free gift.
Question? Well how about all those people who ever lived and died without ever seeing or hearing of a free gift.
Remember, those souls had no where to go because there was no ransom paid for thier release.
Reading, that on the second day, that Jesus visited them in prison, hell for some believers, and introduced Himself to them.
He then broke open the gates of that prison and at the same time opened the gates of heaven and every soul being liberated. Sent to heaven.
I said.....every soul.
Fast forward to the present.
Jesus done His work of redemption for us at no cost to us. It is as, the year of Jubilee, after being imprisoned for 49 years. 7x7= 49 times Jesus instructed us to forgive.
The 50th year is the year of Jubilee.(freedom)
That 50th year is a picture of the coming of Jesus.
All those who accept Jesus' gift of freedom are in their 50th year.
The process is called renewal or for some...being born again.
There is absolutely no distinction of persons as to who can receive the gift.
All that is required is acceptance.
After which, you are free to worship Jesus ( God to some, along with other names, as are used for God,)
Here's your responsibility to God.....don't abuse this free gift!
Use it to worship, adore, live right and love your neighbor and always with your mind, body and soul, praise Him.
That is it......friends.
All of the history of makinds ups and downs are irrevelant to the centerpiece
of all creation, and that being the beginning of new life in Jesus Christ our Saviour and God.
By your acceptance of Jesus as your Savior and God, eternal life begins at that very moment.
The rest is just history bringing you to this point.
Look forward and learn from history that Jesus matters and that life is yet to be lived worthy of Him that gave it to you.
Glad you asked that question cause I love to talk about His wonderful love, His compassion, His long-suffering waiting for our response.
How about your Joe Average Pagan? Hindu? Rastafarian?
Are they gonna get toasted by your godling?
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' 27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' 29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' 27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' 29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
The name,'' Lazarus,'' is the name of the priesthood.
The rich man is a man who rejected to become a priest, he chose another wife instead of the law, and in the end he is divided when the division takes place.
Lazarus is inside the Rich man and the priesthood became ill because the rich man used his position to become rich, and so the gentiles are licking on the sores of the priesthood because it is all they had.
This story is Luke 16, and the ENTIRE CHAPTER is about what a person is, in that he is in a marriage of flesh and spirit right now.
When Jesus sits down to separate the sheep from the goats, he divides one person in half and sends the spirit of the flesh to torment but brings the other half with him.
Christians are reading things about the great division to come, every day they read about it, talk about it, but they don't realize that they are two kingdoms, and through the struggle of these two kingdoms will no doubt have an outcome.
There is an evil kingdom and a righteous kingdom, and one has to submit to the other or fight it out.
The Potter made ..."of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour"...."vessels of wrath fitted to destruction"...and ..."vessels of mercy"...
Note..." Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles"
Hos 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
Blessings, AJ
Paul was showing that he wasn't a Jew, and he was showing how ten tribes took on the pagan Satanalia, and the Babylonian Easter, and for this EXACT reason, God wiped out ten tribes and left Judah standing alone, and Judah has never departed from God and God has never given up on Judah, he only adds to a nation already saved but those ten tribes were NEVER JEWS.
This is historical fact, Paul is telling us that his people became pagans when they called the Torah a strange thing and they WILLINGLY BECAME GENTILES by rejected the Sabbaths and feasts of God, and God tells us this is THE EXACT REASON THEY ALLL DIED.
Because of accepting pagan feasts, for calling the Torah a strange thing, for appointing their own priests, for rejecting the ways of Jerusalem BECAUSE their desire was to stay completely separated from Judah.
God ended their kingdom and wiped them out because they willingly became,'' NOT HIS PEOPLE,'' Gentiles.
Jews were refined in Babylon and brought back, but there was only 7000 members left to the house of Israel and they are not Jews, and so Paul says,'' EVEN US, NOT OF THE JEW ONLY.''
Paul is explaining the fall of the house of Israel, NOT JUDAH, Paul is explaining EXACTLY how the Ten tribes became Gentiles and were seeded into all nations and they can now return.
When they join Judah and stop being pagans, and not only do they have to join Judah, THEY HAVE TO BECOME A JEW.
All they have to do is stop calling the Torah a strange thing and each one has to repent that he ever involved himself with any type of paganism, and they can then be called,'' EPHRAIM.''
Messiah ONLY brings a covenant to Ephraim and Judah, and NOBODY knows the difference between Ephraim and Judah because Ephraim will look like a Jew, he has joined a Jew.
Ten men from every nation and ten men from every ten of the tribes MUST grasp the garment of a Jew.
Do you know any Jews?
Does everyone around you despise you because you love the ways of Messiah in his Sabbaths and feasts?
The Parable of the Prodigal son tells the exact history of Ephraim and Judah and Judah is the son who has always stayed with the father and they prove this by remaining the only people willing to be hated because they wont abandon God's ways, A Gentile who wants to return must come as a servant.
Over time, you will reap the consequences of neglect.
What neglect? I'm here every day preaching the message of grace and the gospel that Paul preached. Which is the will of God, and that isn't bragging at all, everything I have was received freely from the Lord no work on my part. Everybody on the forum could and should be doing the same thing, spreading the good news.
The value of the free gift of salvation is beyond priceless.......and there are many on these boards who would gladly give everything they own and then some to avoid the consequences of unbelief in what God has said, especially after they realize they are in an eternal state from which there is no escape. Their next thought will be if they have read and scoffed at numerous posts is that they didn't have to come to eternal torment, a free gift and an eternal pardon could have been theirs at any time they chose. But most simply don't want to spend any time with a holy God, and avoid any contact at all. Most people treat the free gift of salvation and Christ taking our punishment for us as just the same as the blood of bulls and goats. They won't see the love He has for all of us, but only the fiery eyes of the judgment. Don't be one of those people............
If, our righteousness it's self would buy us favor towards salvation than Jesus would not have need to come.
The practice of righteousness has been from the beginnings of Adam and Eve. All to no avail.
Unless the righteousness of God be inserted into Mankind's righteousness or unrighteousness, it is a lost cause.
Here in lies the problem....the ability of mankind to recognize it's own righteous shortcomings for that of Christ's righteousness for salvation is the point.
Righteousness to be accepted by God have to be done through Jesus.
So said He: Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
He flatly told the Jews that all their efforts of righteousness, as per the law of Moses, are no longer a means towards righteousness accounted. Useless.....kaput!
But, He is saying...through me your righteous efforts will be counted because He is their righteousness.
Now, if one insists on meriting ones own righteousness....go for it. It will help keep you in line.
But as for me, the righteousness of Christ is my freedom to express my love for Him anyway I choose.
I don't need a set of rules to follow for the love for God is my rule written in my heart of flesh.
Following a set of rules only accents ones own righteousness and diminishes His.
What neglect? I'm here every day preaching the message of grace and the gospel that Paul preached. Which is the will of God, and that isn't bragging at all, everything I have was received freely from the Lord no work on my part. Everybody on the forum could and should be doing the same thing, spreading the good news.
The value of the free gift of salvation is beyond priceless.......and there are many on these boards who would gladly give everything they own and then some to avoid the consequences of unbelief in what God has said, especially after they realize they are in an eternal state from which there is no escape. Their next thought will be if they have read and scoffed at numerous posts is that they didn't have to come to eternal torment, a free gift and an eternal pardon could have been theirs at any time they chose. But most simply don't want to spend any time with a holy God, and avoid any contact at all. Most people treat the free gift of salvation and Christ taking our punishment for us as just the same as the blood of bulls and goats. They won't see the love He has for all of us, but only the fiery eyes of the judgment. Don't be one of those people............
You do better than probably anyone you know, as long as you are studying and talking about the word of God, that's all that matters in my opinion.
Mere Salvation is not the point at all, it is ironic that so many Christians look at Muslims and Hindus in a way as if they aren't going to the same place.
Personally, I don't think I will ever make it to be a firstfruit where we see a man's work tested by fire to then receive a reward, and this reward is a house he is building with Christ, that house is a resurrection body and while salvation may be very simple, this is a race that is run through two seasons.
Mere salvation is nothing to brag about, setting one's goal to become the least in the kingdom of heaven is not a goal one should strive for, and Jesus tells us who the least in the kingdom will be.
1 Corinthians 3 ~ Here is a man HUMILIATED but saved. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Romans 6:16
Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?
1 Corinthians 9:13
Do you not know that those who work in the temple eat of its food, and those who serve at the altar partake of its offerings?
1 Corinthians 9:23
I do all this for the sake of the gospel, so that I may share in its blessings.
Galatians 2:2
I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I spoke privately to those recognized as leaders, for fear that I was running or had already run in vain.
Philippians 3:12
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
Philippians 3:14
I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God's heavenly calling in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 2:18
Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a man is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind,
2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Hebrews 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us.
Over time, you will reap the consequences of neglect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser
What neglect? I'm here every day preaching the message of grace and the gospel that Paul preached. Which is the will of God, and that isn't bragging at all, everything I have was received freely from the Lord no work on my part. Everybody on the forum could and should be doing the same thing, spreading the good news.
Much of want you profess is not good news, contrary to your opinion.
Quote:
The value of the free gift of salvation is beyond priceless.......and there are many on these boards who would gladly give everything they own and then some to avoid the consequences of unbelief in what God has said, especially after they realize they are in an eternal state from which there is no escape. Their next thought will be if they have read and scoffed at numerous posts is that they didn't have to come to eternal torment, a free gift and an eternal pardon could have been theirs at any time they chose. But most simply don't want to spend any time with a holy God, and avoid any contact at all. Most people treat the free gift of salvation and Christ taking our punishment for us as just the same as the blood of bulls and goats. They won't see the love He has for all of us, but only the fiery eyes of the judgment. Don't be one of those people...
If you serve a god that would cause you to suffer, because you didn't believe something others are telling you (i.e., eternal torment) from which there is no escape, that in, and of itself doesn't even come close to being Holy.
It is more than interesting TO ME that so much emphasis is placed on the words "without the shedding of blood there is no remission" and "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness?" Apparently, the word ALMOST and the words NEARLY EVERYTHING are completely ignored by ALMOST EVERYONE who claim to be CHRISTIAN?
HEBREWS 9:22
New International Version
In fact, the law requires that nearlyeverything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
New Living Translation
In fact, according to the Law of Moses, nearlyeverything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.
English Standard Version
Indeed, under the law almosteverything is purified with blood; and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
New American Standard Bible
And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
King James 2000 Bible
And, almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
American King James Version
And, almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
American Standard Version
And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.
... ARE YOU living under the LAW of Substitution or that of Grace were YOU CAN boldly come before him because of his love, mercy (unmerited favor) and forgiveness?
The Penal Substitution theory is more than flawed!
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