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Old 01-13-2018, 06:33 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
Predestined has never meant pre-selected lottery winners by God......people hear what they want....here is what it really says....

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those 2 Tim. 1:9 who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom 2 Tim. 2:19 He foreknew, Rom. 9:23; 1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:5, 11 He also predestined (2 Cor. 3:18)to be conformed to the image of His Son, (Col. 1:15, 18); Heb. 1:6 that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30


"CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON"
Try reading Romans from end to end instead of cherry picking verses from several letters...That is exactly what predestination is...It is what unmerited favor is...It is the only way that you can say that G-d called you based on His own choice and that you had nothing to do with your salvation...You say that you didn't do one thing to merit Grace...So, G-d already knew that He was going to call you with irresistible Grace...You were preordained to be quickened...And He passed over the guy standing next to you...
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,090 posts, read 29,934,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Predestination is more along the lines of fate and preordination is more along the line of decision...
Basically, that's how I understand the terms. I don't believe anyone is predestined to do anything, but that many have been preordained to fill specific roles or to accomplish certain things. It's their calling, but they are under no obligation to fulfill it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:39 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,221 posts, read 26,412,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
Predestined has never meant pre-selected lottery winners by God......people hear what they want....here is what it really says....

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those 2 Tim. 1:9 who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom 2 Tim. 2:19 He foreknew, Rom. 9:23; 1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:5, 11 He also predestined (2 Cor. 3:18)to be conformed to the image of His Son, (Col. 1:15, 18); Heb. 1:6 that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30


"CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON"
That's right. No one is predestined to salvation which if that were the case it would then follow that some were not predestined to eternal life. But the Bible says that God desires that all men be saved, though not all men will be saved.

Rather, predestination refers to what those who have been saved by grace through faith are predestined to, which is to be conformed to the image of His Son which ultimately will be the case in the resurrection.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:47 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,162,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
That's right. No one is predestined to salvation which if that were the case it would then follow that some were not predestined to eternal life. But the Bible says that God desires that all men be saved, though not all men will be saved.

Rather, predestination refers to what those who have been saved by grace through faith are predestined to, which is to be conformed to the image of His Son which ultimately will be the case in the resurrection.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:12 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,162,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Try reading Romans from end to end instead of cherry picking verses from several letters...That is exactly what predestination is...It is what unmerited favor is...It is the only way that you can say that G-d called you based on His own choice and that you had nothing to do with your salvation...You say that you didn't do one thing to merit Grace...So, G-d already knew that He was going to call you with irresistible Grace...You were preordained to be quickened...And He passed over the guy standing next to you...

I have read all 13 books of Paul from Romans-Philemon which is Gods word on grace for the Gentiles today. The gospel of grace is for BOTH Jews and Gentiles so both have good news if they want to believe.

I understand the resentment of Jews who have had the yoke of the law on them since Moses. After the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7 God turned from Israel temporarily and went to the Gentiles to make the Jews jealous.......I think it has worked well..........


Rom_11:14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

The Bible is a contract between God and man, and He will always keep the contract, even if we don't.

Jesus completed His work on sin and removed it completely from the equation and told us all "it is finished" at the cross. Jesus has only been portrayed twice as being seated at the right hand, once at creation and after the cross signifying a perfect work. They stoned Stephen because he saw Jesus standing in judgment.

Jesus passes over NO ONE who simply believes and totally trusts in the gospel of grace.....it is very simple and it's just between us and HIM.....I will keep posting this until it eventually sinks in with the people on the forum..........this is what HE wants us to believe today to enter the body of Christ...........

1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

KNOW you're a sinner......Christ died for ALL of our sins, was dead and buried (3 days 3 nights legally dead under Jewish law) and on the third day was raised.

That's it. Believe that and you are saved for eternity because God will make it so. No favoritism nothing of merit on our part all the Holiness we have is IMPUTED 100% from Jesus. Since our power was not required for salvation it can't be lost........only our belief through faith saves us.

Where people today trip up is they MIX law and GRACE which destroys both of them today.

The simplicity of grace drives the hard working always struggling always wondering if they've done enough people crazy. Jesus said His burden was light and He was talking about a moving on from the law.

For the Jews you can look at Abraham who was a forerunner in FAITH...........

Rom_4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom_4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

So we BELIEVE and are saved.......the door is open to ANYONE freely through FAITH..........

Grace and peace
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:30 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Basically, that's how I understand the terms. I don't believe anyone is predestined to do anything, but that many have been preordained to fill specific roles or to accomplish certain things. It's their calling, but they are under no obligation to fulfill it.
In that logic, it's a good thing that we all chose God so we could go along with his plans for us.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:32 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,004,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Try reading Romans from end to end instead of cherry picking verses from several letters...That is exactly what predestination is...It is what unmerited favor is...It is the only way that you can say that G-d called you based on His own choice and that you had nothing to do with your salvation...You say that you didn't do one thing to merit Grace...So, G-d already knew that He was going to call you with irresistible Grace...You were preordained to be quickened...And He passed over the guy standing next to you...
I'm impressed. Good summary.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:03 AM
 
5,438 posts, read 5,941,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
How does God know?

And are you suggesting that God chooses us because we choose him?
Are you suggesting that most people are predestined to hell?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:45 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,162,246 times
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Are you suggesting that most people are predestined to hell?

NOBODY is predestined for hell.......but most of humanity will go down the wide road that leads to it. Any one or all of them had the free choice of heaven.

There are atheists all over who brag about going to hell, they just have no clue what horror they are in for.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:54 AM
 
5,438 posts, read 5,941,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vf6cruiser View Post
NOBODY is predestined for hell.......but most of humanity will go down the wide road that leads to it. Any one or all of them had the free choice of heaven.

There are atheists all over who brag about going to hell, they just have no clue what horror they are in for.
According to those who believe in predestination, if people are predestined for God's Kingdom, then it's only logical to assume that people would be predestined to hell as well. For the record, I do not believe in this line of thinking.
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