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Revelation 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Most who call themselves Jews now, see the verse above. Just because you migrated into an area, doesnt make you the original people of the book.
The Torah DOES NOT belong to the Jews, it is YAHWEH's book, not the Jews. His name was in the OT 7000 times, so this nonsense of Judaism of not saying the name is ridiculous when it was in the OT 7000 times!!! The Feast Days of God (YHWH) is not Jew's days, they are YHWH's days.
Judaism is just a bunch of oral traditions that add to the word of God, and you can see how Jesus (Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) spoke out on much of those oral unnecessary traditions too, that were added to the word.
Not being anti semetic as I know am going to hear it, but Judaism adds to the law and Christianity subtracts from it.
Isaiah 40:3
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
So unless Isaiah is a liar and Judaism is going to delete Isaiah from their texts too, it clearly states they were preparing a way for the LORD(YAHWEH) and since it was the Messiah they were preparing a way for, it proves Jesus(Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) did exist and was the Messiah and WAS God(YHWH) in the Flesh, so John 8:56-58 does match up to the OP's views of him speaking to Abraham.
Revelation 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Most who call themselves Jews now, see the verse above. Just because you migrated into an area, doesnt make you the original people of the book.
The Torah DOES NOT belong to the Jews, it is YAHWEH's book, not the Jews. His name was in the OT 7000 times, so this nonsense of Judaism of not saying the name is ridiculous when it was in the OT 7000 times!!! The Feast Days of God (YHWH) is not Jew's days, they are YHWH's days.
Judaism is just a bunch of oral traditions that add to the word of God, and you can see how Jesus (Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) spoke out on much of those oral unnecessary traditions too, that were added to the word.
Not being anti semetic as I know am going to hear it, but Judaism adds to the law and Christianity subtracts from it.
Isaiah 40:3
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
So unless Isaiah is a liar and Judaism is going to delete Isaiah from their texts too, it clearly states they were preparing a way for the LORD(YAHWEH) and since it was the Messiah they were preparing a way for, it proves Jesus(Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) did exist and was the Messiah and WAS God(YHWH) in the Flesh, so John 8:56-58 does match up to the OP's views of him speaking to Abraham.
See now posts like this just give Crstns a bad name.
again. and again. and again.
The Crstn books are OT, NT, versions of these are KJV, NIV etc.
The Torah is Jewish. It is by Jews and it is for Jews. There is no JC in the Torah, 100% absent. 100% not there. There is no John in the Torah, 100% absent, 100% not there.
That is a fact.
Call it the OT and the NT and you are telling the truth.
Call it the Torah and you are a fraud and a liar.
See now posts like this just give Crstns a bad name.
again. and again. and again.
The Crstn books are OT, NT, versions of these are KJV, NIV etc.
The Torah is Jewish. It is by Jews and it is for Jews. There is no JC in the Torah, 100% absent. 100% not there. There is no John in the Torah, 100% absent, 100% not there.
That is a fact.
Call it the OT and the NT and you are telling the truth.
Call it the Torah and you are a fraud and a liar.
And its people like you that exposes Judaism for what it really is and why the Messiah had to come to show you all your errors and how to actually live the Torah, you all claim to follow.
Get over yourself already, the Torah is just part of the Scriptures. There is more to our life and existence than 5 books of the bible.
Obviously there is no John in he Torah, because the man wasn't even born yet, just like Isaiah wasn't even born yet or King David.
There were NO such thing a JEWS back in the time of Abraham or Moses, THEY WERE CALLED HEBREWS. Jews are just 1 of 12 the tribes of Israel.
Genesis 14:13
13 One who had escaped came and told Abram,the Hebrew. At that time, he lived by the oaks of Mamre, the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner; and they were allies of Abram.
Exodus 9:1 9 Then Yahweh said to Moses, “Go in to Pharaoh, and tell him, ‘This is what Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews, says: “Let my people go, that they may serve me.
See now posts like this just give Crstns a bad name.
again. and again. and again.
The Crstn books are OT, NT, versions of these are KJV, NIV etc.
The Torah is Jewish. It is by Jews and it is for Jews. There is no JC in the Torah, 100% absent. 100% not there. There is no John in the Torah, 100% absent, 100% not there.
That is a fact.
Call it the OT and the NT and you are telling the truth.
Call it the Torah and you are a fraud and a liar.
Actually, God the Son made regular appearances in the OT.
Revelation 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Most who call themselves Jews now, see the verse above. Just because you migrated into an area, doesnt make you the original people of the book.
The Torah DOES NOT belong to the Jews, it is YAHWEH's book, not the Jews. His name was in the OT 7000 times, so this nonsense of Judaism of not saying the name is ridiculous when it was in the OT 7000 times!!! The Feast Days of God (YHWH) is not Jew's days, they are YHWH's days.
Judaism is just a bunch of oral traditions that add to the word of God, and you can see how Jesus (Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) spoke out on much of those oral unnecessary traditions too, that were added to the word.
Not being anti semetic as I know am going to hear it, but Judaism adds to the law and Christianity subtracts from it.
Isaiah 40:3
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
So unless Isaiah is a liar and Judaism is going to delete Isaiah from their texts too, it clearly states they were preparing a way for the LORD(YAHWEH) and since it was the Messiah they were preparing a way for, it proves Jesus(Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) did exist and was the Messiah and WAS God(YHWH) in the Flesh, so John 8:56-58 does match up to the OP's views of him speaking to Abraham.
3A voice calls, "In the desert, clear the way of the Lord, straighten out in the wilderness, a highway for our God."
Revelation 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Most who call themselves Jews now, see the verse above. Just because you migrated into an area, doesnt make you the original people of the book.
The Torah DOES NOT belong to the Jews, it is YAHWEH's book, not the Jews. His name was in the OT 7000 times, so this nonsense of Judaism of not saying the name is ridiculous when it was in the OT 7000 times!!! The Feast Days of God (YHWH) is not Jew's days, they are YHWH's days.
Judaism is just a bunch of oral traditions that add to the word of God, and you can see how Jesus (Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) spoke out on much of those oral unnecessary traditions too, that were added to the word.
Not being anti semetic as I know am going to hear it, but Judaism adds to the law and Christianity subtracts from it.
Isaiah 40:3
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
So unless Isaiah is a liar and Judaism is going to delete Isaiah from their texts too, it clearly states they were preparing a way for the LORD(YAHWEH) and since it was the Messiah they were preparing a way for, it proves Jesus(Yeshua/Yahushah/etc) did exist and was the Messiah and WAS God(YHWH) in the Flesh, so John 8:56-58 does match up to the OP's views of him speaking to Abraham.
Statement: Synagogue of satan who say they are Jews (God's chosen people), but who are not........ Rebuttal: ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (A recent statement of Pope Francis declared the hierarchy of heaven & earth. Virgin Mary is top authority. Second authority is the Roman Catholic church. Third and lowest authority is Jesus Christ) Satan is that power which ascribes power and authority to itself - authority which it has stolen.
Statement: Torah doesn't belong to the Jews, it is YHWH's book. His name mentioned in OT 7,000 times. Rebuttal:"Salvation is from the Jews." - Jesus as quoted by John 4:22
There are many names for the Master of the Universe; Jews believe and respect THE NAME greatly and choose not to speak it at all. This may be an over reaction, but it is indeed a tradition that deserves respect. The phrase YHWH is based upon Hebrew, which has no vowels in the language. It is, therefore, part of the language as well as religious culture. Instead Jews often refer to g-d as Adonai, El Shaddai, eloheinu, etc.
Torah & Tanakh were given to Jewish people by Adonai. Jews do not refer to these documents as Old Testament . The Law & Prophets are collectively referred to as the Tanakh.
Torah (Hellenized as the Pentateuch - 1st 5 books) and the Tanakh were given to the Jews by Adonai (G-d). Jews recognize the universality of these documents and do not label them as unique to their faith alone (as the Romans do with Papal bulls).
Consider also that ALL the gospels and epistles of the New Covenant, with the exception of Luke & Acts, were written BY Jews FOR Jews. Approx. 25-30% of Jews in the 1st century accepted Y'shuah (Hellenized to Jesus) as ha-mashiah (hellenized to messiah). It is the will of Adonai that these documents should all (old & new covenant) be shared and made available to the world. Sharing a document doesn't make it an exclusively Jewish document.
The proper Xian collective reference for the Torah & Tanakh is Old Covenant. The proper reference for the gospels and epistles is New Covenant. Both terms refer to the Covenant of redemption as given by Adonai TO THE JEWS and then to the goyim (gentiles). A covenant is a legal agreement between two or more parties. A testament is a statement of property distribution by one who has died. Adonai is not dead. The Law is eternal and Adonai lives in the expression of the Law.
THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT REGISTRATION FOR SCRIPTURE.
Statement: Judaism is a bunch of oral traditions. Rebuttal: Jewish written texts are among the oldest and most accurately preserved documents in the history of mankind. Even the Qu'ran calls Jews "the people of the book". Ancient Sumerian and Babylonian chronicles agree with assertions and statements made in Jewish history and religious text. Judaism does not stand alone without corroboration from other cultures. Unfortunately it has often been criticized by those who have a grudge against the people of Adonai and the Law of Moses.
Statement: Jesus spoke out against unnecessary oral traditions. Rebuttal: Y'shuah (Hellenized name of Jesus) spoke out against hypocrisy, NOT Jewish tradition.
Y'shuah spoke out against injustice (weighted scales in the market place, considering one man better than another because he had more money or higher place in society).
Y'shuah spoke out against people who justified their own version of religion (hellenized as heresy).
Y'shuah regularly attended synagogue and loved to quote the tanakh (law & prophets).
Y'shuah read from the Torah during those portions of Jewish worship services dedicated to reading from the scroll. Jews still read from it to this day.
Y'shuah observed ALL Jewish tradition. He did not abandon a single one. For example, the seder was very important to Him as evidenced in the gospel stories about His last participation in this unique meal with His disciples. The final seder has been Hellenized by the Xians and is called by them - the Last Supper and/or Holy Communion.
Y'shuah drank real wine, not unfermented grape juice. He even made wine.
Protestants have forgotten that the process of pasteurization, which inhibits the natural fermentation process, wasn't invented until the late 19th century. Protestant leaders have forced an unBiblical prohibition against drinking alcoholic beverages upon their adherents. Jews enjoy drinking alcohol especially during their many festivals and celebrations. Xians hypocritically deny the efficacy of alcoholic wine, which has been certified by medical research. They deny the Biblical record that St. Paul recommended it. This is an example of hypocritical Xian denial of a Biblical Jewish tradition (written, not oral), which Y'shuah embraced.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." - Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17
Self righteous Xians like to justify their anti-semitism and heresy by stating that Y'shuah abolished the Law when in fact HE DID NOT. Y'shuah fulfilled the Law. Not knowing the Law, Xians subvert it by claiming that grace saves all. The Law convicts of sin while grace saves us from it. Jews don't properly apply grace to their theology and Xians do not properly apply the Law to theirs.
The post modern church has corrupted itself and has become a lawless religion and a meaningless pagan culture (false idols are santa claus, easter bunny - personality cults include the Virgin Mary, the Pope and a legion of TV preachers). Proof of this is in declining attendance surveys. People who exercise critical thinking are abandoning the religious dog and pony shows on Sunday morning. There are better things to do with one's time such as attending synagogue on shabbat (Hellenized to sabbath), sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.
Xians like to say Y'shuah abolished the Law because they have no concept of Law or of requirements of Adonai for worship, approaching the throne of grace, or how to live the law. Instead they practice lawlessness and heresy, justifying their sin to unto themselves and placing guilt upon Jews WHEN IT WAS ROMAN LAW THAT CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GRACE. Romans nailed Y'shuah to the stake until He was dead and Romans stole religious values from the Jews (as they also stole religion from every other race and culture) so as to make their own church of satan.
The church is the w-h-o-r-e that rides upon the beast of Revelation. Adonai will judge the w-h-o-r-e, the beast and all those who curse the Jews.
"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." - Adonai as quoted in Genesis 12:3
This means nothing less than a warning against anti-semitic rants. It means nothing less than that salvation comes to the world through the Jews. One who admits this and gives thanks to Adonai for the Jews and for Israel is the one who seeks the light of truth. One who does not - embraces murder and lies. Believing himself to be righteous he proves himself a fool and lives to the end of his days dining on ashes.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
PS On a personal note, I am a member of a Messianic Jewish congregation. Once saved in a Pentecostal church I became disillusioned with Christian hypocrisy, disrespect for the Law, and the many heretical ideologies that are accepted as truth. Messianics have accepted Y'shuah as ha-mashiach and the necessity to repent, to be saved and to be baptized in the Name of Y'shuah. We respect Jewish tradition, which is deep and meaningful, and hold to Torah as a special gift of Adonai to us all - even to the goyim who disrespect it, deny it and lie about it's continuing purpose and value.
Last edited by Choir Loft; 01-26-2018 at 07:27 AM..
...PS On a personal note, I am a member of a Messianic Jewish congregation. Once saved in a Pentecostal church I became disillusioned with Christian hypocrisy, disrespect for the Law, and the many heretical ideologies that are accepted as truth. Messianics have accepted Y'shuah as ha-mashiach and the necessity to repent, to be saved and to be baptized in the Name of Y'shuah. We respect Jewish tradition, which is deep and meaningful, and hold to Torah as a special gift of Adonai to us all - even to the goyim who disrespect it, deny it and lie about it's continuing purpose and value.
The Messianic J̶e̶w̶i̶s̶h̶ congregation is an evangelical Christian group, founded and funded by evangelical Crstn organizations.
And the Messianics you mention are evangelical Crstns practicing Crstnty.
That is not Judaism. It is rejected by all streams of Judaism.
And it is criticized by Crstn leaders for its deception and dishonesty.
JC by whatever name you use is 100% absent from Torah. That is a fact.
If you really respect Jews, Judaism, and Jewish traditions then be honest about being evangelical Crstns and stop the deception of calling yourself Jewish anything. Don't claim the Torah is Crstn because it is not. And it never was. Don't claim to be a Jewish congregation because you are not.
if you are disillusioned with Crstn hypocrisy, then stop those particularly insidious and deceptive and offensive practices.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-26-2018 at 01:59 PM..
Jewish law clearly defines who is a Jew. Born of a Jewish mother or has undergone a valid conversion under Jewish law.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
The Messianic J̶e̶w̶i̶s̶h̶ congregation is an evangelical Christian group, founded and funded by evangelical Crstn organizations.
And the Messianics you mention are evangelical Crstns practicing Crstnty.
...
So, if a Messianic is also Born of a Jewish mother, is he not still a Jew?
The Messianics I know are of Jewish linage.
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