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Well it looks like this post is going over like a lead balloon..........lol
The point is you would think if the 4 gospels are the start of Christianity there might be a few instances of them using the term. The reason it's not there is that Jesus came to the Jews and the 4 gospels are all Jewish, with of course global implications for the world.........
The world does seem happy to just read Israels mail and apply it to themselves, while the "Christian" community for the most part ignores the books written to it..........and so it goes
guess I'm not getting you but FWIW think most Christians regard both Gospels and Epistles with their possible different "audiences" are a UNITY (with both having equal authority in determining belief and practice) and declaring the "good news" that for BOTH Jew and Gentile Jesus IS the Messiah of God and His sacrifice on the Cross initiates a "new covenant" of loving grace and mercy for all humanity. perhaps John 20:31 can sum it all up for the WHOLE "New Testament":
"...these are written so that you may believe that Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His Name"
in the peace of Christ.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 01-29-2018 at 04:56 PM..
Jesus did however make one mention of the church which was yet to come.
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Future tense. Jesus spoke of it in anticipation.
RESPONSE: No. This was added by the writer of the Gospel we call Matthew's about 80 A.D. to Mark's 70 AD Gospel. The word "Church" is as of old English origin and was added to Matthew's gospel hundreds after after the fact.
Matthew himself added the second part of his gospel about "'Church" to Mark's gospel written about 70.AD. But Matthew didn't use the term "Church" Matthew referred to an Eclessia a group of people called out, not a church.
Matthew 16
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, but others Elijah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah,[a] the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter,[b] and on this rock[c] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he sternly ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was[d] the Messiah.[e]
Last edited by mensaguy; 01-30-2018 at 05:21 AM..
Reason: Stop using red text. Read the rules.
RESPONSE: No. This was added by the writer of the Gospel we call Matthew's about 80 A.D. to Mark's 70 AD Gospel. The word "Church" is as of old English origin and was added to Matthew's gospel hundreds after after the fact.
Matthew himself added the second part of his gospel about "'Church" to Mark's gospel written about 70.AD. But Matthew didn't use the term "Church" Matthew referred to an Eclessia a group of people called out, not a church.
Matthew 16
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, but others Elijah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah,[a] the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter,[b] and on this rock[c] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he sternly ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was[d] the Messiah.[e]
Christian is a rare term all round......finding 3 times it's used so far.
Acts 26:28 (ESV)
And Agrippa said to Paul, "In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?"
1 Peter 4:16 (ESV)
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.
Acts 11:26 (ESV)
and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.
Christian is a rare term all round......finding 3 times it's used so far.
Acts 26:28 (ESV)
And Agrippa said to Paul, "In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?"
1 Peter 4:16 (ESV)
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.
Acts 11:26 (ESV)
and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.
i
interesting but still not sure what you are implying---that because of that we should not call ourselves "Christians" (i.e. followers of Christ) and if that is theoretically reasonable what do you suggest we instead identify ourselves as? IMHO, it's not what we call ourselves and the faith we confess to but how we live out that faith to justify any affiliation or union with the Name of Jesus the Christ our Redeemer and Savior.
interesting but still not sure what you are implying---that because of that we should not call ourselves "Christians" (i.e. followers of Christ) and if that is theoretically reasonable what do you suggest we instead identify ourselves as? IMHO, it's not what we call ourselves and the faith we confess to but how we live out that faith to justify any affiliation or union with the Name of Jesus the Christ our Redeemer and Savior.
George I agree with you, Christian is a fine term for those who follow Him. The term is so ingrained here I just assumed it was used in the book more. Simple musings here........don't think most on the forum are ready for what I would like to get to down the road........
Would like to trade 85 degree days here for some of your rain !
George I agree with you, Christian is a fine term for those who follow Him. The term is so ingrained here I just assumed it was used in the book more............................
!
I think it would be helpful to keep in mind the Christian congregation was Not started before Pentecost.
Pentecost happened shortly after Jesus died and was resurrected back to heaven in Acts chapter 2.
Gospel writer Luke wrote (after Pentecost) at Acts 4:12 where Peter says there is No salvation in any other name.
Luke continues to write at Acts 11:26 that in Antioch the disciples (Jesus' followers) were first called Christians there.
Luke then mentions at Acts 26:28 where Agrippa says to God's servant Paul that he was almost persuaded to become a Christian.
Then, we find Peter, at 1st Peter 4:16, writing if we suffer as a Christian don't be ashamed but glorify God.
So, although being named 'Christian' is Not found in the Gospel accounts, it is found by gospel writer Luke and Jesus' followers Paul and Peter.
Christians are not under the Old covenant, only the New Covenant. and since the gospel are OT covenant, no christian. Paul, then Saul, on his way to Damascus lock of any "of this way", (Acts 9:2). and these was disciples of the Lord Jesus who was later called Christians at Antioch, (Acts 11:26),
George I agree with you, Christian is a fine term for those who follow Him. The term is so ingrained here I just assumed it was used in the book more. Simple musings here........don't think most on the forum are ready for what I would like to get to down the road........
Would like to trade 85 degree days here for some of your rain !
we've had warm sunny winter days and cool rainy winter days this season and we are still in a significant rainfall deficit (nearly 10" of rain) but no 85 degree days so far this winter---nor do we normally expect them this time of year or for that matter rarely in the summer in our "naturally air-conditioned" climate.
that said, why does the comparative absence of the word "Christian" mean very much? the writings in the New Testament are about God and His Only Son Jesus and the message of salvation by faith in God through Jesus in the Holy Spirit and NOT about us per se except in so far as it causes us to respond to the Messenger and the Message in faith, hope, and love.
how often a word is mentioned in the Bible (a word which is NOT found at all in Sacred Scripture) is not necessarily any indication of importance (or lack of same) in the concepts that the word may embody. the words, commonly translated in English as "brethren" and "disciples" among others I believe are used instead to denote the followers of Christ and thus could be said to mean exactly the same as the term "Christian"
simply counting words to determine the importance of the underlying concepts may get us perilously close to the lethal spiritual effects of the "letter of the law' rather than the life-giving "spirit of the law" and of the message and mission of Christ.
in the peace of Christ---may He bless and help you and me and all of us all to know and live the truth that will set us free.
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