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Old 05-15-2018, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".

The book of Revelation, the Revealing of JESUS as Spirit, (I AM, Genesis 1:1). JESUS as a man in Natural flesh, (THAT, John 1:1), and JESUS as a Glorified man, the NEW CREATION, (I AM, Revelation 1.

Other words JESUS is I AM THAT I AM. meaning the book of Revelation is a three fold book, past, present, and future.

How do one Read the Book and where do one start from? ...... Chapter 12 backward, and chapter 12 forward.


I AM THAT I AM is the same as, which is, and which was, and which is to come. three period in history.

I AM, which was, Spirit/Father, (CREATOR, MAKER). dispensation I

THAT, which is, spirit/diversified in flesh, Son, (REDEEMER, SAVIOUR). dispensation II.

I AM, which is to come, Spirit, Holy Spirit, Glorified in flesh and bone, (COMFORTER, MEDIATOR). dispensation III.


the book of Revelation reveals JESUS as the Father, as the Son, Who is the HOLY GHOST/HOLY SPIRIT.

************************************************** ******************************
Understanding the book is difficult, but only a suggestion, if one start in the middle with the Christ birth, Chapter 12, (which is present, "Which is"), then one can work their way backward.

chapter 12 Christ Birth and the start of the church,
Chapter 11, Jesus and John the baptist the two witness, the gospel of GRACE,
Chapter 10-6 the spreading and the difficulty of the gospel of this gospel of GRACE,
Chapter 5 his death and resurrection,
Chapter 4-2 the Growth, the warning, and The danger of*Syncretism in the church.

the transition, back to chapter 12 middle, onward the persecution of the church,
from chapter 13 onward are future events.


so starting at chapter 12, these events are the birth of Christ. if one keep a hand on chapter 12 here in Revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2 it's the same event. the Revelation is clear.


if any have a different view of the book please post it. so we'll start to examine this book working with the given suggestion, which could make the book easy to understand if in historical sequence.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12

Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of Israel, the church in the wilderness, Judaism)
Dragon = a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (here in Rev 12 and Matthews 2 king Herod)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic).
Sun = gospel, or word of God
Moon = Mosaic Law

this should be enough to get some started.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Who's the Woman in this chapter of verses. many different views are given as to who she is. the dragon is generally known, but what do these verses tell us about this woman, and this dragon. also when was Satan cast out of heaven, and was there an actual third of angel that fell from heaven with the dragon?.

what do all these signs and symbols say to us today. what is the time frame or setting of this chapter.what do this chapter signify, and its significance in our lives today, if any.

the only way to know these things is to let the scriptures themselves speak. for the bible will interpret it self, if we let it.


Verse 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars”.

take note, all vision given in heaven, do not necessarily means that the event took place in heaven, please understand that. this woman represent the nation Israel, especially the southern tribe, (The small remnant, see Isaiah 1:9). this women represent a church, the remnant. But is Israel, the nation a Church?. Let the Scriptures speak for themselves. Acts 7:37 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". there she is, "the church in the wilderness". so Israel was a church, (as a whole) and by representation, this woman is found in actual (woman) the virgin Mary. who actually gave birth to the Christ.

The next key word here is, "wonder", meaning,

a sign was seen in heaven, but is the action/wonder taking place on earth?, yes. that wonder was a woman, (that gave birth to a child without a man, Isaiah 7:14 & 9:6), in those days it was a wonder. this woman was clothed with the sun= the Righteousness,, and blessing of God. God is light, and he is her protector by his word, for he had made a promise, and his word, he keep. being clothed in his word, she have his righteousness, the white garment. Israel had been washed, and baptized in the red sea. The red sea means something, washed in the blood, (red). so Israel the church was washed in blood, (RED SEA), to have white robes, supportive scripture,1 Corinthians 10:1. the Moon at her feet = the Mosaic Law, a lesser light. Israel was walking by a dim light, the law. it was a lamp unto her feet. Supporting Scriptures, Prov 6:23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life", now, Psalms 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”. there it is, “the law was a lamp, (light) at her feet, as David said in Psalms 119:105 above. just as the Sun is a greater light compared to the moon, so is the word of God, (the Gospel) is superior to the Law of Moses. and upon her head a crown of twelve stars= the place of honor these 12 stars represent the 12 tribes (Revelation 21:12). for each tribe had a head, or principle person to lead, and to lead as a leader is a GREAT responsibility, hence the tribes are the GREAT wall of the city compared to the foundation which are the apostles Revelation 21:14. the Sun, the Glory to come, shine in darkness which is her destiny, meaning taking the gospel to all the world. Supporting scriptures. Matthew 24:14 " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come".

a crown of twelve stars. crown mean FIRST, for a crown is given to the first. hence first is the beginning, or here the beginners, the 12 "disciples", with the Lord Jesus as the HEAD. it is the disciple the "first ones" to learn.


next time verse #2, and we'll learn more, much more about this woman and her child. until then.......
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Verse 2 “And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered”.

if this is the today's church, as many have said and believe, then she is an adulteress church, and that is not going to flying, because the Lord Jesus is coming for a church without a spot or wrinkle. now having a baby out of wedlock is a spot and a wrinkle all rolled into one. but, this woman represents the virgin Mary, who actually gave birth, espouse, but with child by the Holy Spirit, and NOT BY HER HUSBAND. so this is Spiritual. that's the reason why in verse one this was a great wonder. (the prophet Jeremiah said it best "a woman shall compass a man", 31:22) to me this woman is the nation Israel, (the church in the wilderness). being the Representative as the virgin who gave birth to a male child without the help of a natural man. this was
of God. God brought forth this male child. Scripture Matt 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel".

But the question remains, just who really is this woman, (we know symbolic of a church). to identify the woman, (this church), lets start where here with her baby. scripture, Hebrews 7:14 " For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood”. ok, now we have evidence to follow. he sprang out of Judah.

from verse 1, we know that she is a church, Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us". next we must find out who was in the wilderness. it was one nation until she split into two kingdoms. the northern 10 tribes, and the two southern tribes of Judah, and Benjamin. so which one is the woman?.
Jeremiah 3:6 " The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also”. we can see clearly that God not only put Israel, (the 10 northern tribes), away, but divorce themr. what about Israel sister Judah?. Isaiah 50:1 " Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away”.

here we see God did not divorce Judah, but only put her away. and if a man put away his wife and not divorce her he can take her back.

so in conclusion the woman here is Judah, where Mary come from, and our Lord sprang out of. as the apostle Paul said, “For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda”, Hebrews 7:14.

now we have the woman identity clearly. Judah, Judaism.

she, "travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered". the Law cannot save anyone, so there is now the foreshadowing coming true, the actual one for deliverance, the messiah, the Christ, the Saviour of the World. of OLD he was called the "WAY", as now. then some of his followers was called the sect of the Nazarenes, but his followers later at Antioch was called or identified as Christians.

so it is the BIRTH of what we now call today Christianity. so this birth was the "WAY" manifested in flesh, called the WORD.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Verse 3 “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head”.

Now this is interesting, notice the words “great”, and “dragon”, "appeared", having seven heads. in the bible seven means complete, or fulfilled, or absolute, or complete control. it also means coming to an end. this is the last "Great" dragon of this second earth era. the first earth era was flooded out.

This great dragon is represented by King Herod “the great” himself, he is called Herod the “GREAT” in history books. remember this is symbolic language. the devil, the Satan who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. red here is symbolic of blood, for this king had much blood on his hands. according to history He even killed members of his own family who he though that might try to overthrow him and take his crown. But his most noted blood bath was of the infants he killed while trying to kill the baby Jesus. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. this is why he is called a Great "RED"/BLOODY dragon, because of all the blood on his hands. also those same hands took the blood of John the baptist.

The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he, king Herod, ruled by, or under.
it was the Romans who gave King Herod his power. so clearly he is a bloody (red) dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2. so verse 3 introduce the dragon, king Herod.

always remember, just because a vision is given in heaven, dose not necessary means the vision takes place in heaven. let the bible interpret itself.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:35 AM
 
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I may be wrong, but doesnt the book of Daniel point to these events happening in the future, like around the time shortly before the second coming?
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I may be wrong, but doesnt the book of Daniel point to these events happening in the future, like around the time shortly before the second coming?
you're not wrong.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:47 AM
 
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Book of Daniel has lot of information in it, but the problem is, and it even states, we will not be able to recognize a lot of it, until the times are right, so that presents a huge problem in trying to speculate.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Book of Daniel has lot of information in it, but the problem is, and it even states, we will not be able to recognize a lot of it, until the times are right, so that presents a huge problem in trying to speculate.
correct, the time in RIGHT,
That's why we have the book of Revelation. it reveals what Daniel was told to seal up. revelation means the unsealing. supportive scripture,

Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Verse 4. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.

The main keys here are the words, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here is symbolic. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message, that’s the symbolization used here of, heavenly stars. when reading about the birth of Jesus, revelation chapter 12 correspond to it to a tee to Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king (the red dragon) tried to kill the baby Jesus the Christ. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this to me is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew with his "TAIL"here is another word for to gather together. so who did king Herod (the red dragon) drew, or gathered together with his TAIL?. first let's get an understanding of the "TAIL". scripture, Isaiah 9:15 "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail". the DRAGON tail is a lair, (Hold that in memory, we'll come back to this). so who did the king (the red dragon) drew to himself? it's the stars or messengers that is on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may "WORSHIP" the child, (THAT'S THE LIE, AS STATED IN ISAIAH 9:15). but in truth he wanted to kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean to gather, or draw together. king Herod (the red dragon, used his tail, a lie) to inquired of the men of God, (Heavenly messengers, or Godly men), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account in the scriptures. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part, (the wise men).

Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS. lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 chief priests, 2/3 scribes, and our 3/3 the wise men.

see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information. only Lucifer fell, or left his first estate as pur brother Jude wrote, as well as our brother Isaiah foresaw, scripture, Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isaiah 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit”. shalt be from Isaiah prospective in this writing is a future event yet to happen.

Not one holy angels in heaven fell, but Lucifer only. let God word prove without a doubt that these stars here in chapter 12 are men. Jude1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (there they are), to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever".

who are these spots, the clouds without water, who fruits withereth, raging waves of the sea, these wandering “stars”. who are they, men or angels?. a reading of the whole chapter will revealed who they are. But lets see them in a few verses. Jude verse 4 "For there are certain “men” crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ”. now verse 11, these same men are describe again, "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core". now the identifying verse of these men one more time, "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever".

these are men, and not angels. notice the identities in verse 13, " wandering stars". as we know now, backed up with scripture that these stars are men, ..... on earth, and not angels in heaven. “and the dragon stood before the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men".

we see the real dragon being represented/or is symbolic in the person of king Herod, and the woman, is symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Lord Jesus, the HEAD of the church that he will build, the chief cornerstone. the 3rd of stars was 1/3rd the chief priest, 2/3rd s the scribes, and 3/3rd's the wise men, the THREE PARTS. these are the third part of messengers that was brought to "earth", meaning earth bound men.

just keep on hand on Revelation chapter 12, the first half of the chapter, and the other hand on Matthews chapter 2 then one will clearly understand the vision given to John here in chapter 12.
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