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The Bible is VERY clear about male homosexual sex. (One could argue that if it happens without "lying down" then one's in the clear, but I think that would be taking it TOO literally)
Claiming otherwise just shows that one has a personal stake in the matter (Presumably gay, like the moderator)
P.S. I don't have personal negative feelings about gays. We are just discussing the Bible here.
The Bible is VERY clear about male homosexual sex. (One could argue that if it happens without "lying down" then one's in the clear, but I think that would be taking it TOO literally)
Claiming otherwise just shows that one has a personal stake in the matter (Presumably gay, like the moderator)
P.S. I don't have personal negative feelings about gays. We are just discussing the Bible here.
Years ago on another forum a similar topic evolved into a LGBT discussion as seems to be an inevitable progression. Back then I was in the process of studying the so-called 'clobber texts' of the Bible and wanted clear, authentic answers as to their meaning. I came across the below video re the 'man lying with man' Leviticus passage on YouTube and shared it with a regular Jewish member of the forum and asked for his views on the video. I'm probably not allowed to give the link to the actual forum in question, even though I've had no dealings with that particular forum for probably a decade. I also don't know whether I'd be allowed to give any person's name either, even though one could find both the forum and the participants involved if I were to give the link. So, for now anyway, below is the question I asked of the Jewish person, the video link, and his response to the video:
Replying to post 7 by cn-----]
That was most interesting, cn-----. Since you appear to be quite knowledgeable of the Torah, I wonder if you would spend 8:28 of your time and view the below video entitled The Truth About Leviticus & Homosexuality ...?
Since I'm a defender on this forum of those that appear to be 'born' homosexual but are nevertheless condemned by many present-day Christians, it's essential to me that I speak as accurately as I'm able whenever I debate the 'clobber' passages of Leviticus (and other allegedly anti-gay scriptures) with others.
Would you say that the 'explanations' of the Leviticus 'clobber' passages as given in the video to be at least feasible based on what you know?
(Response from cn-----) I watched the video, and it's quite good. A trifle oversimplified when it comes to discussing other religions of the Bronze Age -- they weren't ALL obsessed with fertility rites and so on, and there were other contexts for "gay sex" as well, e.g. homosexual anal rape as a formal humiliation in war or feud -- but the analysis of the language of the Hebrew Bible is right on the money.
As I said, the Bible does not seem to be "aware," so to speak, of homosexuality as a sexual orientation; the reason the ACT is the point of reference is that it never occurred to the writers that anyone would do this because they WANTED to, or that one could be attracted to the same sex and want to live in a gay relationship.
Whatever. The fact is, we know things now that we didn't then, and the world is different. How many rules can one find in the Hebrew Bible that are no longer kept, or even understood in today's world? I eat shellfish, and often; I eat pork, I wear mixed fabrics, and when I had a garden I planted different crops together because they enriched the soil and kept the pests off each other. Anybody wearing a cotton/polyester shirt with clams or shrimp on his breath who points to these so-called "Clobber Passages" is either (a) ignorant or (b) a flaming hypocrite. I've got no patience for people who want to tell me that they "chose" to be straight and that gays can "choose" to change. That's nonsense.
Proof? Okay. CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Right now. You don't have to DO anything about it, mind; just CHOOSE to feel attracted to the other sex.
Can't be done.
My converting rabbi used to say, "If you see something in Torah that you KNOW to be wrong, there are two and only two alternatives. Either you are not reading the Torah properly -- or the Torah is wrong."
Notice that the third alternative, the one most commonly chosen by fundamentalists -- that is, "Discard your own rationality and moral sense in favor of religious dogmatism dictated by a literal reading" -- is not available to us. We are NOT allowed to stop thinking and just do as we're told. Not EVER. The Bible doesn't interpret itself, and even if it did, OUR MINDS STILL WORK. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.
As I've said elsewhere; a literal reading disfigures and denigrates the Bible. In the mouths.
The Bible is VERY clear about male homosexual sex. (One could argue that if it happens without "lying down" then one's in the clear, but I think that would be taking it TOO literally)
Claiming otherwise just shows that one has a personal stake in the matter (Presumably gay, like the moderator)
P.S. I don't have personal negative feelings about gays. We are just discussing the Bible here.
Don’t fall that lying nonsense and lies that Christians hate homosexuals. They are trying to draw you into their stupid arguments. If we were allowed to spread the real truth about its culture and the alarming stats, a few would be alarmed and many would be spitting hatred for exposing the insidious truth.
A warning. Not all facts are allowed on this board. Writing them can get you expelled. Its the New World Order and Satan is pulling a lot of puppet strings.
Don’t fall that lying nonsense and lies that Christians hate homosexuals. They are trying to draw you into their stupid arguments. If we were allowed to spread the real truth about its culture and the alarming stats, a few would be alarmed and many would be spitting hatred for exposing the insidious truth.
A warning. Not all facts are allowed on this board. Writing them can get you expelled. Its the New World Order and Satan is pulling a lot of puppet strings.
Don’t fall that lying nonsense and lies that Christians hate homosexuals.
Well, we would probably need to place those Christians who claim not to hate homosexuals but are still condemning of homosexuals anyway into the category of 'ignorant', i.e. they have no concept as to the many variables surrounding human sexuality as well as having an appalling lack of knowledge pertaining to their Bible.
So, take your pick, hate or ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy
They are trying to draw you into their stupid arguments. If we were allowed to spread the real truth about its culture and the alarming stats, a few would be alarmed and many would be spitting hatred for exposing the insidious truth.
The so-called 'promiscuous' culture and the associated 'alarming stats' have been a heterosexual issue from as far back as I can remember ...way before I had ever heard of a 'gay culture' or, indeed, had even heard the terms 'homosexual' or 'gay'. Joking about boy/girl sexually transmitted diseases with fellow school-mates was quite common place for we silly kids. Any form of unbridled sexual activity - gay or straight - can lead to 'alarming stats'. It's not just a 'homosexual' issue.
Sexual promiscuity, when it occurs, is a human phenomenon that is not uniquely linked with one particular type of sexual orientation. As with any group of people, the sexual behavior of gay men varies tremendously from person to person, with some being very sexually active and others being almost completely celibate. In common with all human beings, gay men have sexual desire. The suggestion by opponents of equality that male homosexual desire is inherently more “sexual” or more “hedonistic” than heterosexual desire is ludicrous.
The core feature of male homosexuality is sexual attraction to other men, not an exclusive focus on a particular behavior (e.g. anal sex). There are many different types of behaviors that gay men can engage in when interacting sexually with other men. Anal sex is indeed one such activity, but it’s certainly not an activity that all gay men participate in, nor is it one that heterosexual people never engage in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy
A warning. Not all facts are allowed on this board. Writing them can get you expelled.
I would imagine that if the 'facts' were balanced, i.e. both the 'alarming stats' of both heterosexual and homosexual 'promiscuity' ...this would be allowed. However, singling out one particular group of people with the sole intent of demeaning them should not be allowed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy
Its the New World Order and Satan is pulling a lot of puppet strings.
Oh-oh, we're back to resorting to comic-book content again.
Start at the beginning. God made one man and one woman and brought her to him and he only had children with her. The proper example was set. Not long after that man turned from it.
Why do you guys not know your own creation story?
God created man (with reproductive organs) and all the animals. God realized man and animal are not good sex partners.
Remember this is gods first try at creation.
So god DECIDED to create a woman.
A human sex partner was a correction for one of the first creation f-ups omnigod made.
Genesis 2:18 New International Version (NIV)
18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
Sure would be nice if you xians would get on the same page.
The Bible is VERY clear about male homosexual sex. (One could argue that if it happens without "lying down" then one's in the clear, but I think that would be taking it TOO literally)
It’s awesome that jesus/god is okay with watching girl on girl licking, huh?
Why doesn’t god have a problem with a woman taking it like a man, up the butt?
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