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Old 05-24-2018, 01:12 AM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,017,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, there is no contradiction. God got it started, and did not prevent the "birth".

Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?” says the Lord.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?”
says your God.
The context of my comment (from post #12) was about God "giving" them the land. You're offering text that is largely referencing the birth of a nation, which is a different thing.

The issue is never what God says, but what man adds to it. And it is a journey everyone needs to take into what Zionism has become. As I say, I used to believe God had given them the land - but if He (i.e. the Christian God) did do that, He would expect them to let the stranger - their half brothers mostly, live with them in peace. That has never happened at the nation and state level - the understanding / outworking has always been conquest and supremacy.

The problem some have with opposing Zionist conquest and supremacy is that they believe they'd be going against God's command 'whoever blesses you, I will bless and whoever curses you I will curse.", and so fear stops them from weighing and testing with honest scales. But the love of the Father is not a soft-spoken emotion - it is the very fires of Himself - and there is no limitations that He places on what happens to people and even nations, to bring them back.

 
Old 05-24-2018, 01:23 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,837,729 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
CHURCHES ENDORSING BDS MOVEMENT

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement (also known as the BDS Movement) is a global campaign promoting various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets what the campaign describes as Israel's obligations under international law", defined as withdrawal from the occupied territories, removal of the separation barrier in the West Bank, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and promotion of the right of return of Palestinian refugees.

The campaign, organized and coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee, was started on 9 July 2005 by over 170 Palestinian non-governmental organizations in support of the Palestinian cause for boycott of Israel, disinvestment from Israel and international sanctions against Israel, citing a body of UN resolutions and specifically echoing the anti-apartheid campaigns against white minority rule in apartheid era South Africa. Protests and conferences in support of the campaign have been held in a number of countries around the world.

- Wikipedia

International Churches

Council of South African Independent Churches
British Methodist Church
Church of England
NCCA – National Council of Churches in Australia

US churches

Episcopal Church
Presbyterian Church
Methodist Church
United Church of Christ
Mennonite Church (Quakers)
Unitarian Universalist Church

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse..." - Genesis 12:3a

It is rather interesting to note that calls for Israel to obey international law do not themselves recognize that same law giving Israel the right to exist among the community of nations. Palestinian interests regularly utilize every form of anti-semitic venom to justify encroachment upon the land given to Israel by God.

It should be noted here that there is not, nor has there ever been an Arab nation called Palestine, yet the supporters of Palestinian claims seem to forget this historic fact. The area came to be called Palestine because of the wish of the Roman Empire to wrest the land's historic roots from the indigenous people and to imprint their own culture upon it. The Romans were only partly successful. When they left the name remained. Long before Rome named it, God had given it to the Jews.

American media, usually left wing in nature, stands with fascist interests in condemning the right of Israel to defend itself. As of this writing, the list of churches who support the BDS movement is incomplete due to the shifting nature of each group's internal politics. For instance, the Vatican seems to waver between accepting Palestinian interests and pretending to support peace in the region. There will be no peace in the region as long as one Jew remains alive.

God gave the State of Israel to the Jews as a homeland.

Those who attempt to stand against Israel may find themselves working against the very hand of God. Several churches in America have now added their closet anti-semitism to the greater interests of those who hate God and God's people Israel. May they suffer the curses they wish upon Israel, according to the Word of God they once claimed sacred.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
You do know that the Mennonites aren’t Quakers, right?...
 
Old 05-24-2018, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,686,812 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age-enduring View Post
The context of my comment (from post #12) was about God "giving" them the land. You're offering text that is largely referencing the birth of a nation, which is a different thing.

The issue is never what God says, but what man adds to it. And it is a journey everyone needs to take into what Zionism has become. As I say, I used to believe God had given them the land - but if He (i.e. the Christian God) did do that, He would expect them to let the stranger - their half brothers mostly, live with them in peace. That has never happened at the nation and state level - the understanding / outworking has always been conquest and supremacy.

The problem some have with opposing Zionist conquest and supremacy is that they believe they'd be going against God's command 'whoever blesses you, I will bless and whoever curses you I will curse.", and so fear stops them from weighing and testing with honest scales. But the love of the Father is not a soft-spoken emotion - it is the very fires of Himself - and there is no limitations that He places on what happens to people and even nations, to bring them back.
Indeed. Well expressed.
 
Old 05-24-2018, 01:28 AM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,017,809 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
Indeed. Well expressed.
Amen. Thank you Father. I'm getting the Shazam, whoa, holy moly's from reading it myself.
 
Old 05-24-2018, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,686,812 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Well, I can say for a fact that this is at least partially inaccurate, given how the presiding body of the Episcopal Church recently voted down divesting from Israel. Of course, the OP has never been particularly interested in accuracy. Why deal with all those tedious facts when you can copy and paste propaganda?

However, all that being said, I do not believe in the unqualified support for the state of Israel, nor should any right-thinking Christian even halfway concerned with the cause of justice.

The OP rightly points out that there was never a Palestine. But there wasn't an Israel between its conquest by Pompey in 63 BC and 1948, either. You might as well talk about the sovereign rights of the Toltecs in Mexico. So if you're arguing that the Palestinians were not a state, then you have to say the same about Israel. Or, for that matter, India. Or any other British, French, Dutch, or Portuguese colony that gained its independence over the past 70-80 years.

What's more, the OP ignores the fact that the Palestinians sought self-determination in a pact with the British and French in exchange for their help against the Ottomans in World War I. The Allies won, and promptly forgot their deal, instead of making Palestine into a British protectorate.

Until the beginning of the 20th Century, the number of Jews in Israel were less than 10% of the population. Suddenly, with the Balfour Declaration, the British declared Palestine a Jewish homeland, followed up by the UN declaration in 1947.

As a result, Palestinians were summarily tossed off their ancestral lands by the decree of foreigners for little other reason than Zionist beliefs that weren't even supported unanimously by Jews of the time. And since then, more and more Palestinians have been evicted from lands that had been in their families for generations, even centuries, by little more than government fiat.

I mean, let's just say you lived on a nice tract of land that had been handed down to you over several generations. Now, let's say that, suddenly, the government tells you, "Hey, you have to get out because we're going to give it to these people over here. Their ancestors lived here two millenia ago, so they have dibs. So go live on this barren, crowded strip of land. You have two weeks to pack." How would you feel about it? Wouldn't you be outraged? So it's strange that the OP uses the term fascist to describe those who oppose the forfeiture of their lands through nothing more than the arbitrary exercise of power.

Hey, does Israel have a right to exist? Sure. Can't unring a bell. Do I support terrorism? No, that would be absurd. But show me anybody who ignores or marginalizes the Palestinian complaints, and I'll show you someone at odd with the Christian notions of justice and fairness.

And, lest you think this is a Jewish vs. Muslim issue, remember that roughly 12% of all Palestinians in Israel in 1948 were Christians. In fact, Christians outnumbered Jews in Palestine until World War I. So you are basically supporting the displacement and oppression of your fellow Christians in order to fulfill some dubious prophecy.
You make many good points. However, I don't agree with you that there was "never a Palestine". I do wonder why any State should be a Jewish State. Did God promise a Jewish State? In the same way, America is not a 'Christian Nation' because we (at least in theory) have welcomed all nationalities, religions, races, etc. I don't understand the "Jewish State" apartheid mission of Israel. It is really unjust and a glaring and shameful thing what has gone on there.
 
Old 05-24-2018, 03:36 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,837,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
So long as Israel murders, starves, and abuses Palestinians, and demands to play a huge role in U.S. foreign policy, then I see no reason to respect them. Many of those in power in Israel are Jewish Atheists who clearly do not understand God's law of love in Christ. I think it is silly to build foreign policy on one snippet of scripture cherry picked from the book of Genesis.
You have no clue to what’s really going on over there...
 
Old 05-24-2018, 03:37 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,837,729 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
Some states and municipalities and places of employment are trying to make it a crime to join the bds movement. For those who don't know what bds means, here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycot..._and_Sanctions

I personally find it to be justified and I agree with the movement. Israel is not above the law, and they are not abiding by the law of Christ.
Seriously???...The Law of Christ?...
 
Old 05-24-2018, 03:39 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,837,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
I think they (those churches) want Israel to recognize Palestine's right to exist --- afterall, they came there and stole the land from them, thanks to the U.S. doling out spoils of war after World War II. I do not believe that was the fulfillment of God's promise to Israel. It goes against God's commandments to steal and to treat your neighbor like an animal. I have heard some of the top brass in Israel consider the Palestinians to be like **** roaches that need to be exterminated. If they would "never forget" the holocaust, I thought that would mean they would never repeat the evil done to them. But they are doing the evil that was done to them, only doing it to a people who never did anything wrong to them. Shame.

You may find this surprising, but there are some who think the "star of David" - which is actually the seal of Solomon and is an occult symbol may be the mark of the beast.
5 Misconceptions about the Violence in Gaza
 
Old 05-24-2018, 04:09 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,052,595 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
Oh, for God's sake. Stop. This is propaganda.
and POLITICAL!
 
Old 05-24-2018, 05:45 AM
 
1,613 posts, read 1,017,809 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
and POLITICAL!
There is no distinction between secular and religious, neither between political and spiritual, with respect to truth or lies.
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