Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
He IS(not going to be) the Savior of the World, it just needs to be realized.
Jesus is the Savior of all men only in the sense that He died for all men (unlimited atonement), therefore making salvation available to all, but a reality only for those who place their faith in Christ. Salvation is not automatic.
It has been said here many times that having faith and believing is not a work of merit (mystic argues it is). Did you do something to realize that 2+2=4, or did you accept / believe the fact that it was correct?
The thief on the cross believed who Jesus was and asked Jesus to remember him after death. The other thief mocked Jesus. The one who asked to be remembered Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise”. The thief did not perform any community service, or anything else. Nor did he commit to doing anything else. He remained on the cross and died.
So, while Mystic argues that believing is "earning salvation", he also says we need to believe that we are already saved, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What happens with his argument if you don't believe we are already saved?
I remember being taught using pennies. So no I didn't just accept it nor was I asked to. I had to learn what the number 2 represented, then learn what it meant to add. If I had simply accepted it as true I wouldn't have understood the mechanics and would have learned 2+2=4 but I wouldn't have picked up any skill that way. I would have had to memorize every addition and subtraction table which is much less efficient than learning how to add and subtract.
So what happened to the thief that didn't recognize Jesus? It isn't clear that the thief who did recognize Him was blessed simply for recognizing Him. If the guy hadn't been a thief he wouldn't even have been up there to recognize Jesus...then what? If he had been an honest man he would have gone to hell?
Jesus is the Savior of all men only in the sense that He died for all men (unlimited atonement), therefore making salvation available to all, but a reality only for those who place their faith in Christ. Salvation is not automatic.
Sorry, i do not believe he is a potential savior that relies on something on our behalf. Believing that you are saved, you experience that salvation.
Jesus is the Savior of all men only in the sense that He died for all men (unlimited atonement), therefore making salvation available to all, but a reality only for those who place their faith in Christ. Salvation is not automatic.
What do you think of those Bible verses that say even Faith is a gift of God? If a person does have Faith it's because God gave it to them and if they don't that was God's choice too.
Of course not, according to YOU one must believe in XYZ.
According to the Bible, to receive eternal life one must believe that Christ died for your sins. You either believe what is written in the Bible or you don't.
According to the Bible, to receive eternal life one must believe that Christ died for your sins. You either believe what is written in the Bible or you don't.
I believe that only God has eternal life in, and of himself. Although you already know that.
You also know that I do not see the Bible as inerrant or infallible given the nature of man.
What do you think of those Bible verses that say even Faith is a gift of God? If a person does have Faith it's because God gave it to them and if they don't that was God's choice too.
Salvation is a gift, which is why Mystics claim fails.
If I gave you a gift $1000, and you accepted it, would you tell everyone you earned it? No, you would not, because it would be dishonest.
“Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ”
Salvation is a gift, which is why Mystics claim fails.
If I gave you a gift $1000, would you tell everyone you earned it? No, you would not, because it would be dishonest.
“Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ”
Yes, if you said to receive this gift this is what you have to do to receive this gift.
What do you think of those Bible verses that say even Faith is a gift of God? If a person does have Faith it's because God gave it to them and if they don't that was God's choice too.
Actually, Ephesians 2:8 doesn't say that faith is a gift from God. To understand why you have to understand the rules of grammar. A pronoun must agree with its antecedent (the noun to which the pronoun refers) in person, number and gender. Here's the verse.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace (dative feminine singular) you have been saved through faith (genitive feminine singular). Andthis (nominative neuter singular) is not your own doing; it is the gift (nominative neuter singular) of God,
As you can see, the pronoun 'this' does not agree with either the noun 'grace' or the noun 'faith' in gender and therefore cannot be referring to either noun. What the pronoun 'this' is referring to is the overall subject of the passage which is salvation.
Now, 1 Corinthians 12:9 does tell of a temporary spiritual gift of faith, but this is not talking about faith in Christ for eternal life. What Paul is referring to here are temporary spiritual gifts which were provided at the beginning of the church-age. This temporary gift of faith was given during the apostolic period of the church to certain people who were already believers for the purpose of encouragement.
Neither of these are synonymous with the faith in Christ that a person must have in response to the gospel in order to receive the gift of eternal life.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
