Lord Jesus, are there few that be saved? (crucifixion, prayers, Holy Spirit)

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by Jerwade

What makes you believe that the fundamentalists (including yourself) have it 100% correct, when word meaning has been changed over the centuries? Hell, you can research any dictionary and see that for yourself.

"Lets just add-another definition and expand the original meaning of the word?"

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

100% not! Probably yes, because I have studied Greek and Linguistics for this very reason - hearing preachers contradict themselves citing 'Greek.'

I give you good contextual, grammatical, linguistic reasons why. I do not just say well God or the text would not say that - blah blah blah - because it does not feel right with me.

And I know how to evaluate such principles of language. There are exegetical principles that one can follow in order to reduce errors. Jeez, this aint hard if you have been around these issue on a level other than grabbing your Strong's Concordance and posting a quote.

Originally Posted by Jerwade

Yet you cannot see that the action in 1 Timothy 2:4 is indicative. Nowhere is it subjunctive, or that of being contingent or probable, nor imperative on the subject’s response. Neither is it Optative, as in being unlikely or wishful thinking that mankind might come to this salvation and knowledge.

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

It must be nice to ignore so much simple context and these linguistic nuances.

Perhaps, you should quit ignoring them?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

BS! I am demanding that you, fairly, accept what was said - period! Our growth in understanding does not change the text and their ignorance.

There is no question that they were ignorant and had primitive beliefs that colored their thinking about God. To assume that did NOT affect their interpretations or understanding of what was taught to them or illustrated in parable or whatnot is not reasonable. Jesus explicitly noted that they were not ready for anything but "carnal milk." I am arguing that their understanding was flawed and incorrectly interpreted and communicated. I am applying more evolved knowledge, perspective, and understanding of human psychology to discern the actual intended content - the "solid food" Jesus alluded to.

Originally Posted by Jerwade

Perhaps, you should quit ignoring them?

I'm not I'm demonstrating them!

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

There is no question that they were ignorant and had primitive beliefs that colored their thinking about God. To assume that did NOT affect their interpretations or understanding of what was taught to them or illustrated in parable or whatnot is not reasonable. Jesus explicitly noted that they were not ready for anything but "carnal milk." I am arguing that their understanding was flawed and incorrectly interpreted and communicated. I am applying more evolved knowledge, perspective, and understanding of human psychology to discern the actual intended content - the "solid food" Jesus alluded to.

This does not make much sense. Who are you to assume what the texts says is in accord with what Jesus meant when what we know regarding Jesus is in the same texts by the same authors? You are saying that you don't agree with them but that somehow you can discern what Jesus wanted apart from these texts yet we only know of Jesus from the texts.

Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8

What brand? I'm not saying this is you or anything but at first I could ONLY see the Bible they way I was trained to see it. When I was in the group I only heard the voice of judgement. When I read it without the influence I heard the voice of Grace. I guess is what I'm asking is do you still see the message of the Bible the same as when you were a believer?

In regard to universalism it does not matter of the other 'brands' because no brand other than universalism teaches that all will be saved. Calvinism and Arminianism and their brands do not have all being saved. Of course what is happening in the Catholic Church these days who knows - they change every which way the wind blows nowadays.

Even when I was Christian and I started to study the languages of the Bible and Linguistics my views changed eventually leading me to abandon the faith all together. Obviously the moment when I left is not the same as when I believed. But much subsequent study has only confirmed that choice and understanding.

Originally Posted by pcamps

I'm yet to see it. Jesus took scriptures that the scribes and pharisees had mis interpreted and set them straight on them, do you think they said "You know what Jesus you're right?", like hell did they, they had made their bed in their biased based mis interpretation of scripture and no amount of critical explanation of them was going to make them see that he too was the exact presentation of the scripture in human form. Feeling has everything to do with it, they were absolutely at home seeing things only through their preconceived opinion.

Feeling is useless in this case! Let's see how do we come to know whose feelings are right? I feel you are wrong now - does that make me right? Why are you right, how do you know? Oh yeah your feeling nothing but feelings. This is the problem with religion and shoddy texts of ambiguity coupled with ignorance.

Look you don't have to believe the scriptures - why are defending them with a universalist interpretation? Just use your feelings. Why did you even need a book to tell you that Jesus existed?

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin

Not true, because I believe Him and He doesn't lie or try to deceive me such as your self. He doesn't or never has treated me in the way you do.
I have no respect for you anymore, Jerwade, as you lie about my Savior to deceive ppl into believing you in your deceptive ways with your one-liners. You are acting like Satan who wanted to be like the Most High, wanting ppl to believe and follow him rather than God.

How sad that you have chosen this path in life and let your pride deceive you!!

Just look at what you posted, you have equated yourself to God Almightly!

Where exactly does it state this?...

Satan who wanted to be like the Most High, wanting ppl to believe and follow him rather than God.

Originally Posted by Jerwade

Perhaps, you should quit ignoring them?

Again: does it look like I'm ignoring them?

Do you even know what you are talking about? I suggest you read 'Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.'

You do realize that there are 6 different nuances to the indicative mood?

'The verbal action or state with reference to its actuality or potentiality'

Potential Indicative: Sematically equivalent to a potential mood, due to the verbal root; found in verbs of obligation, wish, or desire followed by infinitive.

Do you know what follows in the Greek - you guessed it an infinitive.

I don't have time to teach someone as stubborn and raw as yourself - unless you want to pay me

See things are not as cut and dry as your so-called sources want you to believe or because you are not up to speed on these matters. Not that you give a rats you know what - just stick with you feelings. It must be nice to ignore so much simple context and these linguistic nuances.

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Again: does it look like I'm ignoring them?

Do you even know what you are talking about? I suggest you read 'Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.'

You do realize that there are 6 different nuances to the indicative mood?

'The verbal action or state with reference to its actuality or potentiality'

Potential Indicative: Sematically equivalent to a potential mood, due to the verbal root; found in verbs of obligation, wish, or desire followed by infinitive.

Do you know what follows in the Greek - you guessed it an infinitive.

I don't have time to teach someone as stubborn and raw as yourself - unless you want to pay me

See things are not as cut and dry as your so-called sources want you to believe or because you are not up to speed on these matters. Not that you give a rats you know what - just stick with you feelings. It must be nice to ignore so much simple context and these linguistic nuances.

How’s your Hebrew?...

Originally Posted by Richard1965

How’s your Hebrew?...

I'm no expert but my Greek is better. I took modern Hebrew a long while ago mainly for credit. I thought it would be interesting. Of course I have had no practice in that ever since.