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The above scripture has nothing to do with the 3 days between Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. Zilch, zero, nada. That scripture is referencing the state of the antediluvian world where the message of the gospel (through Noah) was preached to the evil-doers of the day (termed as the 'spirits in prison') who paid no heed to the message and are NOW dead (at the time of the authorship of 1 Peter) as, of course, they would be centuries later. There are truly some weird and wonderful misinterpretations of scripture out there and this is but one of them . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Ya have heard that understanding many a time but that is not what it actually says.
Look at it again.
I don't need to look at it again. I don't care what some mainstream churches interpret that scripture to mean. I already know what it means. And it has nothing to do with Jesus preaching to piles of bones several thousand years old during His 3 days and 3 nights in the grave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Already covered above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
This is not talking about Noah preaching it is talking about Christ preaching, it was by that quickened spirit that he preached unto the spirits in prison.
Okay, let us do some logical thinking here. Peter had the Tanakh and this is the source that provided him with the knowledge of the Noah saga. Why do you think that he mentions Noah at all? Peter knew that God had destroyed the wicked and he also knew that every attempt was made by Noah to warn them that, if they didn't change their evil ways, they would be destroyed by an imminent flood. Peter refers to these antediluvian people as being 'spirits' who are 'prisoners' to their sins. As stated previously, the terminology used in this passage is awkward to we of today since it is an ancient text not written in a language that we're familiar with. WE need to understand and acknowledge that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Okay. Peter is talking about Noah, his family and the 'disobedient' people of Noah's day ...right? Why is Peter talking about Noah at all? Keep reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
Notice who the Gospel was preached to.
The disobedient spirits in prison
The dead.
Utter nonsense! The dead, by definition, are not alive! Why did Peter bring up Noah at all? The reason he brought up Noah was to demonstrate that, even several thousand years ago, the gospel message (ala Jesus Christ) was preached by the early prophets to the people of their day who either listened or they didn't. The person of Jesus did not arrive on the scene until ...well, you know the Christmas story. Peter only knew the very same Noah story from the same source as that we have today. NOWHERE in that story does Jesus make an appearance. No. The gospel message as later taught by Jesus was the very same message that Noah related to the antediluvian people and THIS is what Peter is referring to. Are you seriously suggesting that Jesus, following His resurrection, whispered into Peter's ear, "Hey, guess where I've been for the past 3 days? I've been to hell preaching to the prisoners that are being held there!" That's nonsense, of course. As far as Peter was concerned Jesus was dead, then resurrected. He knew no more than that. Peter had the very same information that we have today. Any embellishments pertaining to this scripture have been added by the church due to its obsession with hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Obviously they were not dead during Noah's preaching . . .
Of course they weren't dead ...did you read what I said in my previous post? I SAID that they were very much alive DURING the preaching phase but were LATER destroyed by the flood after which they were DEAD. So, Peter, referring to the Noah story (that he got from the Tanakh and NOWHERE else!) tells of Noah's failed mission to save the people of his day who were ALIVE up until the flood came after which they DIED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
. . .and were not in a prison.
Yes they were. They were in a prison that they had made for themselves. And, they suffered the consequences. Many of us today could use that analogy about ourselves. The dead right now are in their graves. They are not suffering eternal torment or partying it up with God in heaven. They know nothing. And they will know nothing until 'resurrection day' (according to the Bible, not me) when the dead in Christ shall arise from their graves and no longer be held captive to death. Pretty neat, eh?
RomulusXXV: Pneuma will respond to your post, you can bet your life on it. It becomes painfully obvious to me you know not of what you speak! I suggest you break from your traditions and see how your theory matches up with the translations.
"For this was the reason why the good news of Jesus was given even to the dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but might be living before God in the spirit."
I came to the party late! I have not read a single post....this is one of
my favorite topics!! , Vf6.
The criminal on the right....A-L-L he had to do was ask, be open, be humble, hope...
and there...there is the example of how God's Divine Love works...cuz you can bet
he was some bad criminal to be put to death!
Didn't matter...not to our Father.
Clearly there is very strong resistance to the implication in Peter's enigmatic passage that changes coulg be made in the status of spirits after death. Throws the favorite scare tactic into a cocked hat and makes the gospel rely on its value for community, which the controllers don't like at all.
I came to the party late! I have not read a single post....this is one of
my favorite topics!! , Vf6.
The criminal on the right....A-L-L he had to do was ask, be open, be humble, hope...
and there...there is the example of how God's Divine Love works...cuz you can bet
he was some bad criminal to be put to death!
Didn't matter...not to our Father.
Jesus did not tell the thief he was saved. Every grave will be emptied after Har-mageddon on this earth to judgement.
RomulusXXV: "For this was the reason why the good news of Jesus was given even to the dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but might be living before God in the spirit."
When Jesus spoke, some of the ' dead ' were hearing his voice, so Peter is using similar language at 1st Peter 4:6.
That would be 'dead' spiritually because those hearing Jesus were ' dead ' in their trespasses and sins - Matthew 8:22.
The living were ' dead ' before hearing about Jesus, but would begin to 'live' spiritually because of faith in the good news.
Any comments about Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13; 1st Timothy 5:6 _______
"Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
I notice you placed the 'comma ' after the word you.
Jesus did Not go to Paradise on the day he died according to Acts 2:27.
So, Truly I say to you today, you shall be with me in Paradise. The comma belongs 'after' the word today,.
In other words, on the day Jesus' died (that very day) the man would later be (future tense) in Paradise.
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' (future tense) a resurrection...
Both Jesus and the thief went to the grave ( Acts 2:27) on the day they died.
No one had a first or earlier resurrection before Jesus.
Jesus was Not resurrected the day he died.
Notice Jesus said paradise not heaven. Jesus was very good at making people think one thing but actually meaning something else.
The thief was not saved because He was not born from above and no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above.
I find Adam and Eve were in Paradise meaning the paradisical Garden of Eden on Earth and Not in Heaven.
So, when Jesus promised paradise to the thief he was promising Not Heaven, but a future earthly resurrection.
I find it is false clergy, Not Jesus, who make people think one thing but actually meaning something else.
So, during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth the thief will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on a beautiful paradisical Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
That is when there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous as per Acts 24:15; Rev. 1:18.
As for the wicked, the wicked will simply be 'destroyed forever' according to Psalm 92:7.
When Jesus spoke, some of the ' dead ' were hearing his voice, so Peter is using similar language at 1st Peter 4:6.
That would be 'dead' spiritually because those hearing Jesus were ' dead ' in their trespasses and sins - Matthew 8:22. The living were ' dead ' before hearing about Jesus, but would begin to 'live' spiritually because of faith in the good news.
Follow the bouncing ball Matthew>>>>>>>
That is exciting information to know, exciting, but flawed in a number of aspects, the first of which these individuals mentioned by St Peter are dead! Secondly they are brought to life "to live as God lives" in the spirit!
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
"We all have to die—we're like water spilled out on the ground that can't be gathered up again. But God doesn't take life away; instead, he makes plans so those banished from him don't stay that way."
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