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No, I did not say I was the Messiah. Therefore your snide comment is a personal attack which is a violation of the forum rules may I remind you. Distorting my words for the purpose of attacking will be something I will report. So mature up and learn how to read someone attentively without twisting it.
Jesus never directly said He was either. Yet by His actions others assumed He was..
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
And many are led astray by the arrogance and piety of others.
I have a friend who is a professional creationist. He tends to deal more with the scientific arguments of today then he dells with Biblical defense. This is not to say he cannot defend Scripture by no means. Though I have decided to defend just Scripture. I personally do not care if people think the earth is flat. If they think the earth is flat then have at it. My concern is this scam on the Bible and how it leads to nothing but mass apostasy and extreme antisemitism.
The firmament is not meant to mean solid. Even Augustine who has been misrepresented here mentions about a place beyond the limits of air; that is, the limits of our atmosphere. I do not believe these so-called scholars who have rejected the word of God are even truly saved. As an Anglican (church of England), the church has been divided in many different groups. Moderator cut: We aren't accusing Christian churches of equivalence to Satanic priests (whatever that is). Fortunately for me I'm ACC, the Anglican Continuum, still using the 1928 BCP. I was thinking about becoming a Roman Catholic but they do not know the 5th word. If a church don't understand the 5th word of Gen.1:1 the how will they understand John 1:1? So this liberal Christian movement, being extremely far left and antisemitic, is not orthodox and has no root.
got one you might like.
if the earth were an infinite plane.
Would there be a horizon?
So, back to the OP: no, the Bible does not teach flat earth, it just makes reference to the current local cosmology that icludes the earth as flat with a dome over it.
...and I thought that those who wrote that 'local cosmology' were being 'inspired' by the Hebrew war god, Yahweh? You'd have thought he'd had told them they were wrong!
...and I thought that those who wrote that 'local cosmology' were being 'inspired' by the Hebrew war god, Yahweh? You'd have thought he'd had told them they were wrong!
Now you get the reason for the violent objection to people pointing out the references to local cosmology. It couldn't be the case if "God said it."
Or even more interesting: "God said it, so that must be how it is and science is a scam."
06-17-2018, 09:29 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
So, back to the OP: no, the Bible does not teach flat earth, it just makes reference to the current local cosmology that icludes the earth as flat with a dome over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
...and I thought that those who wrote that 'local cosmology' were being 'inspired' by the Hebrew war god, Yahweh? You'd have thought he'd had told them they were wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Now you get the reason for the violent objection to people pointing out the references to local cosmology. It couldn't be the case if "God said it."
Or even more interesting: "God said it, so that must be how it is and science is a scam."
Exactly! And someone posted a link to a Mike Heiser article. I like Mike as a scholar in regard to the ANE customs and languages but not his rationalizations trying to maintain a belief in such a God.
It is funny that God did not care about cosmology and the representation of it, his creation, as factual but somehow cares about other ANE customs like tattoos, dress, and food habits. How do we really know when it is telling us ‘true truth’ and only condescending to the culture of the period? If it cannot be trusted in the things we can verify (physical things) how can we trust it in things we cannot – like angles, resurrection, Adam and Eve, etc. As such the Bible becomes a useless source for ‘revelation.’
What Mike Thinks:
"My position is straightforward. The biblical writers do indeed describe a flat round earth… They wrote about the world this way because they lived at a time before knowledge of the natural world was sufficient to demonstrate otherwise."
"Let me just say God isn’t a liar. He knows (and knew) the earth is a globe. It just happens that the people he chose to produce this thing we call the Bible didn’t know that. And God couldn’t have cared less. The writers God used to produce the Bible were not inspired to write about things of the natural world that were beyond their own worldview and knowledge base."
Why not? With an all-knowing God directing them to write regarding his will and truth you would think that would be sufficient enough to actually give a proper description of how the world is and how God created it. Why does it seek to be a polemic against the gods and their beliefs but not their cosmological view? Why would YHWH use the scaffolding of pagan cosmology as a vehicle for his spiritual truths? This make no sense given God’s capabilities and his other trivial concerns – like clothing, food habits, and facial hair. Really!
This is simply a rationalization born out cognitive dissonance.
Exactly! And someone posted a link to a Mike Heiser article. I like Mike as a scholar in regard to the ANE customs and languages but not his rationalizations trying to maintain a belief in such a God.
It is funny that God did not care about cosmology and the representation of it, his creation, as factual but somehow cares about other ANE customs like tattoos, dress, and food habits. How do we really know when it is telling us ‘true truth’ and only condescending to the culture of the period? If it cannot be trusted in the things we can verify (physical things) how can we trust it in things we cannot – like angles, resurrection, Adam and Eve, etc. As such the Bible becomes a useless source for ‘revelation.’
What Mike Thinks:
"My position is straightforward. The biblical writers do indeed describe a flat round earth… They wrote about the world this way because they lived at a time before knowledge of the natural world was sufficient to demonstrate otherwise."
"Let me just say God isn’t a liar. He knows (and knew) the earth is a globe. It just happens that the people he chose to produce this thing we call the Bible didn’t know that. And God couldn’t have cared less. The writers God used to produce the Bible were not inspired to write about things of the natural world that were beyond their own worldview and knowledge base."
Why not? With an all-knowing God directing them to write regarding his will and truth you would think that would be sufficient enough to actually give a proper description of how the world is and how God created it. Why does it seek to be a polemic against the gods and their beliefs but not their cosmological view? Why would YHWH use the scaffolding of pagan cosmology as a vehicle for his spiritual truths? This make no sense given God’s capabilities and his other trivial concerns – like clothing, food habits, and facial hair. Really!
This is simply a rationalization born out cognitive dissonance.
How exactly do normal human beings, all endowed with that of a conscience, having an awareness of individual responsibility for their judgments and choices; manage to justify in their own eyes the most inhuman atrocities and acts of self-righteousness without running into intolerable cognitive dissonance within their own supreme values?
06-17-2018, 12:03 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
How exactly do normal human beings, all endowed with that of a conscience, having an awareness of individual responsibility for their judgments and choices; manage to justify in their own eyes the most inhuman atrocities and acts of self-righteousness without running into intolerable cognitive dissonance within their own supreme values?
One way is to dehumanize. Another is to simply not categorize their acts as such and think they are doing God's will. But this probably all starts with some cognitive dissonance whether conscious or not. This is way off track from the issue of the OP though. Moral atrocities are not really the cognitive dissonance I was referring to but what nateswift mentioned.
How exactly do normal human beings, all endowed with that of a conscience, having an awareness of individual responsibility for their judgments and choices; manage to justify in their own eyes the most inhuman atrocities and acts of self-righteousness without running into intolerable cognitive dissonance within their own supreme values?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
One way is to dehumanize. Another is to simply not categorize their acts as such and think they are doing God's will. But this probably all starts with some cognitive dissonance whether conscious or not. This is way off track from the issue of the OP though. Moral atrocities are not really the cognitive dissonance I was referring to but what nateswift mentioned.
I would agree, although I have observed some extreme self-righteousness within this thread.
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