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However, Jesus used aionios to describe life eternal with God for believers, and punishment eternal for those that are destined. It is totally incorrect to interpret the same word in different ways.
If aionios is of equal duration in both occurrences of Mt.25:46, shouldn't "all mankind" (Rom.5:18), "the many" (Rom.5:19) and "all" (1 Cor.15:22, 28) be co-extensive in number in these passages:
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die - so also - in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subject unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in ALL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
If Jesus wanted to use the term aidios to describe eternal life, He could have... but He didn't.
Jesus could have used AIDIOS of both life & punishment in Mt.25:46. But He didn't. And in doing so He rejected the language of the Pharisees who used AIDIOS of punishment & believed it is eternal, which is what AIDIOS means. Scripture never uses AIDIOS of endless punishment, but extrabiblical writings do.
Instead Jesus & inspired Scripture chose the noun AION & its corresponding adjective AIONION (best translated EONIAN) to speak of eschatological punishment. EON & EONIAN are - often - used of finite duration in ancient Koine Greek. Such would be a strange choice of words to express the doctrine of endless torment, if Jesus believed the same doctrine as the Pharisees, whom He often harshly rebuked.
If such an incredibly horrific thing as endless torments awaited anyone, Jesus would have used the best words available to express it. And in such a clear way as - no one - would misunderstand Him. He didn't. Therefore He rejected such a horrifying dogma.
Not only would AIDIOS have properly served to express a doctrine of endless sufferings. The words "no end" of punishment would also have served to express such a dogma unambiguously, unlike the ambiguous words AION & AIONION. The phrase "no end" is used in Scripture of God's kingdom (Lk.1:33), but never of anyone's punishment. The words "no end" are also used of God's years which are endless (Psa.102:27; Heb.1:12).
"Of the doctrine of the Pharisees he [Josephus, 37-100 A.D.] says:
" "They believe that wicked spirits are to be kept in an eternal imprisonment (eirgmon aidion). The Pharisees say all souls are incorruptible, but while those of good men are removed into other bodies those of bad men are subject to eternal punishment" (aidios timoria). Elsewhere he says that the Essenes, "allot to bad souls a dark, tempestuous place, full of never-ceasing torment (timoria adialeipton), where they suffer a deathless torment" (athanaton timorion)." "
"...He [Philo, 20 B.C.-50 A.D.] uses the exact phraseology of Matt. 25:46, precisely as Christ used it: "It is better not to promise than not to give prompt assistance, for no blame follows in the former case, but in the latter there is dissatisfaction from the weaker class, and a deep hatred and æonian punishment (chastisement) from such as are more powerful." Here we have the precise terms employed by our Lord, which show that aionian did not mean endless but did mean limited duration in the time of Christ."
"... In one place occurs this sentence concerning the wicked: "to live always dying, and to undergo, as it were, an immortal and interminable death."2..."
"...Had our Lord intended to indoctrinate the doctrine of the Pharisees, he would have used the terms by which they described it. But his word defining the duration of punishment was aionian, while their words are aidion, adialeipton, and athanaton. Instead of saying with Philo and Josephus, thanaton athanaton, deathless or immortal death; eirgmon aidion, eternal imprisonment; aidion timorion, eternal torment; and thanaton ateleuteton, interminable death, he used aionion kolasin, an adjective in universal use for limited duration, and a noun denoting suffering producing improvement."
It is not irrelevant, we have kept the meaning because it meant eternal then as it does now.
Yes, it is irrelevant to the meaning of words in ancient Koine Greek what words mean in modern Greek. Just like modern English words don't establish the meaning & usage of English words hundreds of years ago. Word meaning is determined by usage in the time when such words were used, not 2000 years later. It is therefore foolish should anyone argue "since aionios means eternal today, therefore it always meant eternal including 2000 years ago". The church of Dante's Inferno, Inquisitions, Crusades, burning of those they deemed heretics & their writings, which also kept people in illiteracy & ignorance for many centuries, has had over a millennium to corrupt the word aionios according to Augustine's ignorance of the dead Koine Greek lingo.
People always speaking about Judaism, the 7 feasts and the holy 8th day, and it is not that amusing to watch.
Matthew 25 is just a continuation of Matthew 24 where Jesus is talking about the same thing over and over, unfortunately, most people pick and choose what they want to believe about Jesus. You quote Jesus and the majority tell you that Jesus was wrong.
Matthew 24 is showing Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Shemini Atzeret, and most people don't know anything about these things and so they don't even know what is being discussed, and by the time you get down to the end of Matthew 25, he tells us about the sheep and the goats, but this is redundant, he is saying the same thing over and over and because people don't know the Feasts of Messiah or the comings and goings of the Temple, or the Torah cycle, and what happens on the fall Holy days, and what they are appointed to do, they don't see any of the language of the temple or it's comings and goings because they aren't in Judaism, and that is what is being discussed, and so we have a bunch of people speaking about Judaism who don't believe in Judaism.
You could take Matthew 24 and Matthew 25 and just begin writing down dates beside scriptures because the scriptures take you straight to the feast days and what they are appointed to accomplish, and amongst these is the great division where Jesus had already gone through it with two men in a bed, two women at the wheel, and if you can't understand this, you will think Jesus is coming to curse entire nations.
Is that what Jesus is coming to do?
He is going to sit all the nations in order to curse entire nations and then to bless entire nations where both hold the righteous and the wicked?
Messiah came and took two men to make them one man where Messiah came looking for the lost sheep of the ten tribes of Israel named Ephraim. God had ended Ephraim because they separated from Judah and took on the same pagan holy days that Christians keep today, and Gentiles are only grafted through the void in the ten lost tribes. Paul explains this in Romans speaking of those ten tribes and how Gentiles are grafted through those ten tribes when they come converting to Judaism. Hosea speaks about a betrothal that one day those lost gentiles living in the land of Joseph, the land of Galilee would get a betrothal to a Jew.
So the friend of the bridegroom was set out on his way to complete his mission in preparing Gentiles to marry a Jew and to fill the void left in those ten tribes.
Messiah came taking the Gentiles of Ephraim to make them one people with the Jews of Judah, and he made these two people, ONE SERVANT, but when the Gentiles picked up and left Judah, left God to go and commit adultery and idolatry against God by involving themselves in the worship of Babylonian Gods and their Holy days, they said the same thing Israel said in the day they picked up and departed from David, and so David stood alone while the ten stood alone, and so when the servant is cut in half, the kingdom becomes as ten virgins who have been born into a broken covenant the day they called the law a strange thing and not only did they separate from Judah, they set in to killing Judah or anyone who would follow a Jewish Messiah in his own appointed days.
The church made it IMPOSSIBLE for any Gentile to come under the covenant Messiah brings to Ephraim and Judah because of the fact that a Gentile is ONLY grafted into Israel to Join the Jew when that Gentile accepted God's worship system. When it was made illegal to keep the ways of Messiah, that was the day that Gentiles stopped coming under the covenant of Messiah, the day they departed from David is the day they died.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 06-15-2018 at 04:41 PM..
Jesus was a Jew speaking in Jewish idioms and parables, and if you aren't learning Judaism, you just aren't going to see the language.
Hogwash! The Master, Christ Jesus, was speaking words in parable any person can know under the anointing of His Presence (Jew, Gentile, heathen). Since the Lord Jesus Christ & Abba are speaking of sheep and goat nations, not individuals, what do you as a son of Abraham, grasp as the final outcome of the separation and why?
Hogwash! The Master, Christ Jesus, was speaking words in parable any person can know under the anointing of His Presence (Jew, Gentile, heathen). Since the Lord Jesus Christ & Abba are speaking of sheep and goat nations, not individuals, what do you as a son of Abraham, grasp as the final outcome of the separation and why?
O, Go ahead and tell us a few of these goat nations and sheep nations, can you name one goat and one sheep?
You are the one with the anointing?
Do you even keep the 7 feasts and the Holy eighth day?
Do you begin counting from Passover until you get to Pentecost or is Pentecost just something that Jews do?
Rose, give me your best sermon how Jesus was your Passover lamb, your ram of Shavuot, your Yom Kippur Goat and your Sukkot bull.
Whether you will admit it or not, we are speaking of Judaism, not some other religion founded in Rome or Babylon, we aren't going to take a Christians Sabbath or a single Christian holy day and teach Jesus because Jesus practiced Judaism, and he came in the prophesies of Judaism looking for Gentile converts to convert to Judaism. Conversion is where you take on the worship system of a religion and God has explained to all Gentiles just how they take hold of his covenant. Isaiah 56 is devoted to the Gentile and how it is that a Gentile takes hold of God's covenant to then boast of an inheritance in Israel.
Today's modern Christianity cannot boast of an inheritance in Israel because they simply wont accept the worship system of Messiah and for good reason, you follow the religion of Messiah and you died.
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Not sure where you got that from. Another dodge, I suspect. pneuma will give me an honest answer.
