Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Then we who are alive, who are left and remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.
This is Paul referring to Zechaiah 14 when the world is judged in how they have treated Israel.
Then we who are alive, who are left and remain,
Remain and left behind after what?
After all the gentiles are judged and killed, everyone who fought against Jerusalem and Judah fall dead, AND THEN WE WHO ARE LEFT AND REMAIN ALIVE.
You are seriously misinformed Mike, Jesus and all those Jews were speaking of Rosh Hashanah and what is appointed to happen......Jesus came for Passover, he came for first fruits, he came for Pentecost, and he is also appointed to come on Rosh Hashanah, for Yom Kippur, for the feast of Tabernacles to give the second rain on Shemini Atzeret.
AGAIN, you are sitting there speaking about a religion that you don't know anything about, you are speaking of feast days and traditions you refuse to even learn. Do you know why all the Gentiles are judged and not Israel?
Because every year on Rosh Hashanah God seals his people in their forehead from the judgment of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. ANY GENTILE can receive this same seal that Jews receive, and there is only ONE WAY to receive God's promised seal, and God promises this protection.
Paul was speaking to Gentiles who joined Israel and who received the promised seal because they accepted the worship system of God.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be.
You wanna say that this term of the last trump is just a saying? Paul just made up this thing about the last Trump didn't he?
EVERYONE knew what day the last trump is blown on, Jews know what day it is, it is one of the ram's horn taken from the ram caught in the thicket. The first Trump is blown on Pentecost, and the great trump is blown on Yom Kippur.
Because you don't know these things, you sit there and make things up about Jewish traditions set in stone.
I'm not the one who is misinformed. Or confused. You voice a lot of beliefs that simply are not Biblical. And your views concerning the rapture of the church is one of them. The rapture of the church has nothing to do with Israel or with Judaism or with the Jewish new year. It has everything to do with the church and with the end of the dispensation of the church.
I'm not the one who is misinformed. Or confused. You voice a lot of beliefs that simply are not Biblical. And your views concerning the rapture of the church is one of them. The rapture of the church has nothing to do with Israel or with Judaism or with the Jewish new year. It has everything to do with the church and with the end of the dispensation of the church.
That is ridiculous, We claim that Jesus came fulfilling the feasts of Israel walking in Judaism, of course, you would say Jesus wasn't any of the sacrifices.............How could he be sacrifices in a religion he wasn't in? Incredible, all you do is prove Jesus wrong.
It is ridiculous to sit there and talk about Jewish holy days being completely ignorant of what they are and what they are appointed for. Jesus has to come for the fall holy days or he can't be the Messiah. you are claiming that he isn't going to do this. This is why you should never speak to Jews.
I showed in post #75 that the Bible does teach a seven year Tribulational period. You might want to read it.
i read it Daniel 9 is not about a futuristic tribulation period it only Applies to Jesus and the temple site in the first century
After Jesus' crucifixion, The sacrifices cease in ad 70. the Roman Armies came and destroy the Temple putting an end to the sacrifices. The Romans then establish a pagan worship center dedicated to Jupiter in the site that is the abomination of desolation.
the area become desolate when Jews were taken captives by the Romans and the Ropmans took over and buiuld pagan shrines on it
that's the bible the counter-reformation Jesuit interpretation is wrong and unbiblical
The Jewish interpretation agrees with me the only difference is they said the anointed one that will be cut off his King Agrippa while Christians say it was Jesus
And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week: לָרַבִּים, for the princes, like “and all the officers of (רַבֵּי) the king,” in the Book of Jeremiah (39:13).
will strengthen: Titus [will strengthen] a covenant with the princes of Israel.
for one week: He will promise them the strengthening of a covenant and peace for seven years, but within the seven years, he will abrogate his covenant.
he will abolish sacrifice and meal-offering: This is what he says in the first vision (8:26): “and in tranquility he will destroy many.” Through a covenant of tranquility, he will destroy them.
and on high, among abominations will be the dumb one: This is a pejorative for pagan deities. i.e., on a high place, among abominations and disgusting things, he will place the dumb one, the pagan deity, which is dumb like a silent stone.
high: Heb. כְּנַף, lit. wing, an expression of height, like the wing of a flying bird.
and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one: and the ruling of the abomination will endure until the day that the destruction and extermination decreed upon it [will] befall it, in the days of the king Messiah.
befall the dumb one: Heb. תִּתַּ, reach; and total destruction will descend upon the image of the pagan deity and upon its worshippers.
That is ridiculous, We claim that Jesus came fulfilling the feasts of Israel walking in Judaism, of course, you would say Jesus wasn't any of the sacrifices.............How could he be sacrifices in a religion he wasn't in? Incredible, all you do is prove Jesus wrong.
It is ridiculous to sit there and talk about Jewish holy days being completely ignorant of what they are and what they are appointed for. Jesus has to come for the fall holy days or he can't be the Messiah. you are claiming that he isn't going to do this. This is why you should never speak to Jews.
You're rambling. The issue is the rapture, and the rapture has nothing to do with the feasts of Israel. The church is not Israel and the rapture is related to the church. Not to Israel.
i read it Daniel 9 is not about a futuristic tribulation period it only Applies to Jesus and the temple site in the first century
After Jesus' crucifixion, The sacrifices cease in ad 70. the Roman Armies came and destroy the Temple putting an end to the sacrifices. The Romans then establish a pagan worship center dedicated to Jupiter in the site that is the abomination of desolation.
the area become desolate when Jews were taken captives by the Romans and the Ropmans took over and buiuld pagan shrines on it
that's the bible the counter-reformation Jesuit interpretation is wrong and unbiblical
The Jewish interpretation agrees with me the only difference is they said the anointed one that will be cut off his King Agrippa while Christians say it was Jesus
And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week: לָרַבִּים, for the princes, like “and all the officers of (רַבֵּי) the king,” in the Book of Jeremiah (39:13).
will strengthen: Titus [will strengthen] a covenant with the princes of Israel.
for one week: He will promise them the strengthening of a covenant and peace for seven years, but within the seven years, he will abrogate his covenant.
he will abolish sacrifice and meal-offering: This is what he says in the first vision (8:26): “and in tranquility he will destroy many.” Through a covenant of tranquility, he will destroy them.
and on high, among abominations will be the dumb one: This is a pejorative for pagan deities. i.e., on a high place, among abominations and disgusting things, he will place the dumb one, the pagan deity, which is dumb like a silent stone.
high: Heb. כְּנַף, lit. wing, an expression of height, like the wing of a flying bird.
and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one: and the ruling of the abomination will endure until the day that the destruction and extermination decreed upon it [will] befall it, in the days of the king Messiah.
befall the dumb one: Heb. תִּתַּ, reach; and total destruction will descend upon the image of the pagan deity and upon its worshippers.
The 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is all about Israel. And I've already shown that the 70th week of the prophecy has not been fulfilled. This was covered in posts #75, 77, and 81.
And you continue to ignore the fact that certain things which are supposed to happen after the Tribulation, such as Jesus returning to set up the Millennial kingdom, have not happened, which means that the Tribulation has not yet happened.
The 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is all about Israel. And I've already shown that the 70th week of the prophecy has not been fulfilled. This was covered in posts #75, 77, and 81.
And you continue to ignore the fact that certain things which are supposed to happen after the Tribulation, such as Jesus returning to set up the Millennial kingdom, have not happened, which means that the Tribulation has not yet happened.
Daniel 9 is not about the tribulation. Daniel 7 with the little horn is about the tribulation
the 70th week is already fulfilled with the destruction of the temple by the Romans and they turning the siote into a Pagan holy site dedicated to their god Jupiter (abomination of Desolation
Jesus will not set up his kingdom on earth. thee will not be a millennial kingdom on this Earth
John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
2 Peter 3 The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Daniel 9 is not about the tribulation. Daniel 7 with the little horn is about the tribulation
the 70th week is already fulfilled with the destruction of the temple by the Romans and they turning the siote into a Pagan holy site dedicated to their god Jupiter (abomination of Desolation
Jesus will not set up his kingdom on earth. thee will not be a millennial kingdom on this Earth
John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
2 Peter 3 The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
The 70th week of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is the Tribulation. Again, I've already gone over why the 70th week has not yet occurred. The 70th week will begin with the signing of a peace treaty by the prince who is to come. Daniel 9:27 refers to it as ''a firm covenant with the many.'' That covenant will be broken after 3 1/2 years. Since the people of the prince who is to come were the Romans (it was the Romans who destroyed the temple and Jerusalem), the prince who is to come will be a Roman. Far from there having been a peace treaty or covenant made with Israel by the Romans, they destroyed the temple and Jerusalem and the Jews were dispersed throughout the world. And in no way can it be said that the things mentioned in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled. ''Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.'' Those things have not been accomplished.
John 18:36 in no way means that Jesus will not establish his kingdom on this earth. The fact that Jesus will return and set up His Millennial kingdom on this earth is well established in the Old Testament. Daniel 2:29-45 speaks of the final kingdom to be set up on this earth. A kingdom that God will set up and which will never be destroyed. Zechariah 14:9-21 speaks of the Lord being king over all the earth, and the families of the earth going up to Jerusalem to worship the King (Jesus Christ). By the way, the first part of Zechariah 14 mentions the return of the Lord to fight for Jerusalem against the nations that come against it at the end of the Tribulation. This has not yet happened.
And so, yes. Jesus will set up his Millennial kingdom on this earth.
The 70th week of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is the Tribulation. Again, I've already gone over why the 70th week has not yet occurred. The 70th week will begin with the signing of a peace treaty by the prince who is to come. Daniel 9:27 refers to it as ''a firm covenant with the many.'' That covenant will be broken after 3 1/2 years. Since the people of the prince who is to come were the Romans (it was the Romans who destroyed the temple and Jerusalem), the prince who is to come will be a Roman. Far from there having been a peace treaty or covenant made with Israel by the Romans, they destroyed the temple and Jerusalem and the Jews were dispersed throughout the world. And in no way can it be said that the things mentioned in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled. ''Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.'' Those things have not been accomplished.
constantly repeating the claim that Daniel's 70th week is about the Tribulation does not make it so. repeating does not make you right
Daniel 7 talks about the Tribulation where the little horn(papal vatican rome emerged from the roman empire which is the 4th beast) was waging war against the saints(Christians who refuse to submit to papal authority during papal rule during the dark ages)
7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words.
19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke [i]pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
Quote:
John 18:36 in no way means that Jesus will not establish his kingdom on this earth. The fact that Jesus will return and set up His Millennial kingdom on this earth is well established in the Old Testament. Daniel 2:29-45 speaks of the final kingdom to be set up on this earth. A kingdom that God will set up and which will never be destroyed. Zechariah 14:9-21 speaks of the Lord being king over all the earth, and the families of the earth going up to Jerusalem to worship the King (Jesus Christ). By the way, the first part of Zechariah 14 mentions the return of the Lord to fight for Jerusalem against the nations that come against it at the end of the Tribulation. This has not yet happened.
And so, yes. Jesus will set up his Millennial kingdom on this earth.
John 18:36 said his kingdom is not of this earth. it's a simple sentence which means there will be a new heaven and a new earth
Daniel 2:44 said God will set up a kingdom it didn't say it will be on earth
Zecharia 14 is about the New Jerusalem coming down on a New Earth which is mentioned in the book of Revelations
The New Covenant which Jesus instituted is not the covenant of which Daniel 9:27 speaks. The covenant mentioned by Daniel is to be made by the prince of the people (the Romans) who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple which historically happened in AD 70 (see Daniel 9:26-27). That covenant is to be made for 7 years (one week of years). But he will break that covenant after 3 1/2 years. How on earth you could confuse that with the New covenant is beyond me. Do you seriously think that the New Covenant was to last for only 7 years, and that Jesus broke the covenant after 3 1/2 years? Really?
The 7 weeks and the 62 weeks did not end with with Jesus' baptism. They ended when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a colt about a week before He was crucified.
And I've already stated that just as the first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy were periods of literal years, so must the 70th week be a period of 7 literal years. But the 70 week of the prophecy occurs after the destruction of the temple and the city which took place in AD 70. And that was some 37 or 40 years after Jesus was crucified, depending on whether He was crucified in AD 30 or 33. That means that the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy cannot have been consecutive.
Those accomplishments decreed for the Jews and for Jerusalem mentioned in Daniel 9:24, ''To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy'' anticipate the establishment of Israel's covenanted millennial kingdom when Jesus returns after the Tribulation. It's still a future occurence.
I must have missed where it says the covenant will be broken after 3 1/2 years??
Are you reading into things??
Daniel said after the sixty 2 weeks the city will be destroyed, was the city destroyed after the sixty two weeks? Yes. It's consecutive, you have just bought into another lie and are unable to see the truth. If you reread my 2nd post it shows, that Jesus was anointed when the 62 weeks ended.
So your saying that the 62 weeks ended at the annointing and did not continue with Jesus, the whole reason the prophecy was written in the 1st place.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
