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Old 07-28-2018, 06:50 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 529,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
If you look at the estimated population over time it has been relatively flat until a few centuries ago. The Black Death for example wiped out at least one quarter of the population of Europe, smallpox decimated First Nations people and so forth. The OP must be ignoring infant mortality, death while bearing a child, diseases for which we now have treatments or vacines, plagues and starvations, wars in which men were more expendible, lack of sanatation or dental care and almost everything that exists that makes our lives healthier and safer. Oh how about improvements in agriculture as well as food storage abilities.
Of course there has been disease and starvation. But you offer no conclusive evidence on the impact of population growth. On the other hand, the Jewish people growth rate of 18 million from Jacob to pre World War 2 is measurable.

Folks, the naysayers appears to not have read the article. They feel immediately the need to attack circumstantial evidence that supports the Biblical record. It seems they place their faith in the world and not on Jesus’ words.


Matthew 24:37
37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
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Old 07-28-2018, 06:59 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 529,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Commenting on the flood story since the OP mentioned it, the geological record simply does not support a global flood. I believe that the Biblical flood, as well as the other flood stories of the ANE, is based on an actual flood, perhaps the Black Sea flood, which while massive, was still just a regional flood. The Biblical flood story was a polemic against the other ANE flood accounts and intentionally uses hyperbolic language to present a regional cataclysmic flood as a global flood for rhetorical purposes and theological reasons.

For instance, the flood was not the result of the Sumero-Akkadian god Apsu wanting to destroy man because man was making so much noise that he couldn't sleep as in the Mesopotamian Epic Creation Story, but because of the Biblically stated reason of the evil in the world.

The Biblical flood account conveys a theological message that is independent of an actual historical global flood.
You claim that there is no evidence of Noah’s Flood. But other scientists say there is strong evidence of a worldwide flood. The article, and many other writings refute your illogical claim that Genesis is nothing more but allegorical stories. You don’t even believe Jesus when he talks about Noah and Adam. Your religous dogma does not align with Christian truths.


Let me ask you a direct but very fair question. Why would any Christian listen and trust you who is luke warm about God’s Word?
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Old 07-28-2018, 07:04 PM
 
168 posts, read 68,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
You claim that there is no evidence of Noah’s Flood. But other scientists say there is strong evidence of a worldwide flood. The article, and many other writings refute your illogical claim that Genesis is nothing more but allegorical stories. You don’t even believe Jesus when he talks about Noah and Adam. Your religous dogma does not align with Christian truths.


Let me ask you a direct but very fair question. Why would any Christian listen and trust you who is luke warm about God’s Word?
But other scientists say there is strong evidence of a worldwide flood.
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Old 07-28-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,905 posts, read 26,132,057 times
Reputation: 16058
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
You claim that there is no evidence of Noah’s Flood. But other scientists say there is strong evidence of a worldwide flood. The article, and many other writings refute your illogical claim that Genesis is nothing more but allegorical stories. You don’t even believe Jesus when he talks about Noah and Adam. Your religous dogma does not align with Christian truths.


Let me ask you a direct but very fair question. Why would any Christian listen and trust you who is luke warm about God’s Word?
The ''scientists'' at creation.com or answers in Genesis are not providing real science. That the creation and flood stories were never intended to be taken as scientific explanations for the origin of the Universe is obvious. While the Bible was written for us, it was not written to us. It was written to a pre-scientific people by writers who themselves had no knowledge of 20th-21st century cosmogony and were writing within the context of the ANE culture and their cosmological concepts.

The Universe simply was not created in a six day period a few thousand years ago. The earth was not created before the sun around which it orbits.

Why would any Christian trust me, who according to you am ''luke warm about God's Word?'' First of all, I am a Christian and I am not luke warm about God's word. Secondly, many Christians understand the creation account to be about theological messaging rather than scientific fact.

In the short 12 minute video below, several theologians comment on the Genesis creation account.

Listen to the comments by Dr. Alister McGrath, Dr. John Polkinghorne, Dr. John Walton, Dr. Karen Strand Winslow, Dr. Chris Tilling, Dr. Nancey Murphy, Dr. Peter Enns, Dr. Ard Louis, and Dr. N. T. Wright.


Science and Genesis - N.T. Wright, John Polkinghorne, Allister McGrath


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bKa92eLkQM

Try to set aside your presuppositions and listen with an open mind to what they are saying.
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Old 07-28-2018, 08:57 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 529,066 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The ''scientists'' at creation.com or answers in Genesis are not providing real science. That the creation and flood stories were never intended to be taken as scientific explanations for the origin of the Universe is obvious. While the Bible was written for us, it was not written to us. It was written to a pre-scientific people by writers who themselves had no knowledge of 20th-21st century cosmogony and were writing within the context of the ANE culture and their cosmological concepts.

The Universe simply was not created in a six day period a few thousand years ago. The earth was not created before the sun around which it orbits.

Why would any Christian trust me, who according to you am ''luke warm about God's Word?'' First of all, I am a Christian and I am not luke warm about God's word. Secondly, many Christians understand the creation account to be about theological messaging rather than scientific fact.

In the short 12 minute video below, several theologians comment on the Genesis creation account.

Listen to the comments by Dr. Alister McGrath, Dr. John Polkinghorne, Dr. John Walton, Dr. Karen Strand Winslow, Dr. Chris Tilling, Dr. Nancey Murphy, Dr. Peter Enns, Dr. Ard Louis, and Dr. N. T. Wright.


Science and Genesis - N.T. Wright, John Polkinghorne, Allister McGrath


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bKa92eLkQM

Try to set aside your presuppositions and listen with an open mind to what they are saying.
I just read a brief critique on one of your priests, McGrath. You align your philosophy with him as he also thinks the Bible is nothing more than stories. He is a politician playing both sides of the fence; atheistic views and Christian thought. If you read the Bible in the Spirit, you would understand that Scripture are not tales but actual events. Archeological discoveries have never proven the Bible false.

You have the freedom to believe in any religious dogma you desire. But I strongly recommend to stop trying to destroy the Christian faith. Because if your wrong, you will answer for your discretion.

Hebrews 10:31
For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:06 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,283,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
Of course there has been disease and starvation. But you offer no conclusive evidence on the impact of population growth. On the other hand, the Jewish people growth rate of 18 million from Jacob to pre World War 2 is measurable.

Folks, the naysayers appears to not have read the article. They feel immediately the need to attack circumstantial evidence that supports the Biblical record. It seems they place their faith in the world and not on Jesus’ words.


Matthew 24:37
37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
There are entire disciplines that have studied human populations over the last thousand or thousands of years. If you wish to ignore research on pst populations you are of course free to do so. Your logic of looking at population growth from 1948 to date and believe it was the same in the years 548 to 618 or 1148 to 1218. I am not attacking you but informing you why it's an error to believe that population growth has been linear over time.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:14 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 529,066 times
Reputation: 326
Question for those who discount the 6 day Creation story inspired by the Lord, written down by Moses.

Have you read and studied the Pentateuch? Would you agree that the person who wrote the first five books of the Bible was an intelligent, thoughtful man? So why would a brilliant writer confuse the science principles of plants needing sunlight and water to survive confusing the order of the Creation Days? The most logical answer is that is was the actual order of events and he was instructed to write what actually transpired.

Did the nature law of Thermodynamics exist before the Fall? Did God set decay in motion in the beginning ? If “Christian” scientists cannot address and answer these questions, then how can they apply today’s scientific principles at the start of creation? Who knows the state of the nature of the Universe in the beginning?

Last edited by SumTingy; 07-28-2018 at 09:29 PM..
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:28 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 529,066 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
There are entire disciplines that have studied human populations over the last thousand or thousands of years. If you wish to ignore research on pst populations you are of course free to do so. Your logic of looking at population growth from 1948 to date and believe it was the same in the years 548 to 618 or 1148 to 1218. I am not attacking you but informing you why it's an error to believe that population growth has been linear over time.
Everyone one of these disciplinarian scientists studying population growth are Darwinists. Since their judgment has been tainted by a flawed theory and much of their conjecture is based on false presumptions, it is safe to say that their opnions garner very little merit.

What we can measure, however is an actual group of people from a specific period of time, i.e. Jacob to pre World War 2. This is not a statistic but an actual calculation. This same principle used against the Flood time period comes up with similar output. It is not conjecture of what may have happened but a testable and repeatable result. And that is true science.

Last edited by SumTingy; 07-28-2018 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:48 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,905 posts, read 26,132,057 times
Reputation: 16058
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumTingy View Post
I just read a brief critique on one of your priests, McGrath. You align your philosophy with him as he also thinks the Bible is nothing more than stories. He is a politician playing both sides of the fence; atheistic views and Christian thought. If you read the Bible in the Spirit, you would understand that Scripture are not tales but actual events. Archeological discoveries have never proven the Bible false.

You have the freedom to believe in any religious dogma you desire. But I strongly recommend to stop trying to destroy the Christian faith. Because if your wrong, you will answer for your discretion.

Hebrews 10:31
For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Your reaction is not unexpected. Many people find it easier to cling to their present beliefs and ignore any new information which challenges their beliefs. Some people can't accept that they may have been wrong about what they believe.

Further, implying that I, or anyone who doesn't share your literal view of the Genesis creation account is not reading the Bible in the Spirit is a bit holier than thou.

Many events in the Bible are historically true. But some events, such as the creation account and the flood account are not historically true but are intended to be understood as theological messaging and polemic against Israel's ANE neighbors. It's telling that you didn't even comment on what they said. Instead, you tried to discredit one of the speakers.

Oh. And I'm not trying to destroy the Christian faith. Again, I am a Christian. And again, many Christians do not hold to a literal view of the creation account but understand that the Bible has to be interpreted in the time and culture in which it is written instead of trying to impose cultural imperialism on the Bible.

The Genesis creation account's purpose is to counter the creation tales of Israel's neighbors and state that Yahweh is the creator. But the details of the story are not to be understood as being scientifically correct.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,013,000 times
Reputation: 14068
The idiocy on parade here courtesy of the fundies is deeply appreciated.

You hasten your own demise.
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