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Old 08-02-2018, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
A biased view is not necessarily criminal or wicked, but it can be misleading.
What would be the misleading intention? The books were chosen because they were judged to be most representative of the apostles understanding of Jesus. If you are not interested in the apostles understanding of Jesus, then yes you might be “mislead”.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
And your point is? You expect angels to come down from heaven to tell you which books to read?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
What would be the misleading intention? The books were chosen because they were judged to be most representative of the apostles understanding of Jesus. If you are not interested in the apostles understanding of Jesus, then yes you might be “mislead”.
The primary purpose of any organization is to ensure its continuance through the acquisition of power. Expect organization men to work for their organization. As for the angels question, the underlying (and groundless) assumption is that a book should be authoritative. Assume authority for the "New Testament:" three times that "authority" names a different "guide" or authority. Paradox: Why don't you accept the authority you have chosen when IT names a different one?

No, not angels, the Spirit promised by Jesus (3x) as guide "forever."
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
The primary purpose of any organization is to ensure its continuance through the acquisition of power. Expect organization men to work for their organization. As for the angels question, the underlying (and groundless) assumption is that a book should be authoritative. Assume authority for the "New Testament:" three times that "authority" names a different "guide" or authority. Paradox: Why don't you accept the authority you have chosen when IT names a different one?

No, not angels, the Spirit promised by Jesus (3x) as guide "forever."
I would certainly hope that an organization is interested in preserving itself. Wouldn’t it be pointless to for an organization for self-destruction?

I do believe that books chosen to be in the bible should be authoritative. Otherwise, why include them?

I don’t understand your point about the three authorities. Yes, the Holy Spirit guides us and guides the Church.
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
And your point is? You expect angels to come down from heaven to tell you which books to read?
My point is self-explanatory and a continuation of the conversation started in the OP.

I'll ignore the gratuitous nonsensical remark that follows your question.
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
My point is self-explanatory and a continuation of the conversation started in the OP.

I'll ignore the gratuitous nonsensical remark that follows your question.
I wasn’t intending to be gratuitous. I don’t know what other authority you could have for determining which books to include other than an organization of human beings. I’ve read the books not included and I think a wise choice was made by the human organization. So I accept it. But I wouldn’t expect everyone to do that research. It makes more sense to accept whatever the learned leaders of your church have done the research on.
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
You’re more than welcome to examine all the other books written about Jesus and determine for yourself which ones you believe to be inspired. Or you can trust the judgement of thousands of theologians who spent most of their lives researching the matter. I prefer the latter. I can’t imagine what nefarious intention they would have of trying to mislead me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
A biased view is not necessarily criminal or wicked, but it can be misleading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
What would be the misleading intention? The books were chosen because they were judged to be most representative of the apostles understanding of Jesus. If you are not interested in the apostles understanding of Jesus, then yes you might be “mislead”.
That depends - is it being used to determine and defend what one has come to believe, or to see the world from a different perspective?
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
That depends - is it being used to determine and defend what one has come to believe, or to see the world from a different perspective?
I think the books were chosen based on the perspective of the Apostles. Jesus chose the Apostles to carry on his work. So the Church tried to determine which books best represented the Apostolic authority. Then the Church based it’s teachings on those of the Apostles as reflected in the New Testament.

So it wasn’t really the Church’s attempt to confirm their preconceived notions of Jesus, nor was it an attempt to be all-inclusive. It was an attempt to know Jesus as the Apostles knew him.
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
I would certainly hope that an organization is interested in preserving itself. Wouldn’t it be pointless to for an organization for self-destruction?

I do believe that books chosen to be in the bible should be authoritative. Otherwise, why include them?

I don’t understand your point about the three authorities. Yes, the Holy Spirit guides us and guides the Church.
You seem to have missed the point about HOW organizations tend to try to preserve themselves. And the point about including books is the question of WHY they should be considered authority in the first place. It was not 3 authorities mentioned, but the fact that the ONLY "authority" or "guide" mentioned IN the book THREE TIMES was NOT the book.

I think I might as well ask a fish to consider how birds fly. You are so immersed in the man-made doctrines of your church that you can't conceive of the idea that they are WRONG.
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Here.
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
You seem to have missed the point about HOW organizations tend to try to preserve themselves. And the point about including books is the question of WHY they should be considered authority in the first place. It was not 3 authorities mentioned, but the fact that the ONLY "authority" or "guide" mentioned IN the book THREE TIMES was NOT the book.

I think I might as well ask a fish to consider how birds fly. You are so immersed in the man-made doctrines of your church that you can't conceive of the idea that they are WRONG.
Could you elaborate what you are talking about when you refer to the 3 authorities and the 3 times. It’s probably obvious, but it’s going over my head.
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Could you elaborate what you are talking about when you refer to the 3 authorities and the 3 times. It’s probably obvious, but it’s going over my head.
ONE authority promised in 3 places:John 14:17, John 14:26, John 16:13
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