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Show me the verse that says Phoebe is a pastor or elder. Can you do that? Calling her a servant and fellow worker is not the same thing.
And no--there is no woman pastor mentioned in 1 Cor 12:7-11. That's a passage referring to Spiritual gifts, not offices of the church. Don't confuse the two.
thanks for the reply, see post #3.
#2. "there is no woman pastor mentioned in 1 Cor 12:7-11. That's a passage referring to Spiritual gifts, not offices of the church".
LOL, LOL, LOL........ I see your lack of Knowledge of the word of God.
Look BaptistFundie, I see you know not the difference as to what a Spiritual Gift is as to what you calls an office. office is a western term mindset.
let me give you a hint, question, are Pastors A. Called. B. be Sent, or C. Given? which one. now i'm talking about Pastors. so give me your answer......
I see what you're doing, READING into the scripture. I backed up the scriptures by researching OUT THE definitions of WORDS. this gives a full and complete understanding of the scriptures.
Let me ask you this BaptistFundie. is a Pastor a Bishop?
is the Lord Jesus a Bishop?
is the Lord Jesus married?
PICYJAG
at the start who were the bishop/ elders.. were they all married? Pauls is not marrried is he a bishop/ elder? does Paul who is single and ask that other remain so unmarried //// meet any of the qualifications baptist requires? what about Steven and heck any of the apostles? many were single...
these rules Baptist is demanding are just guildlines.. like don't put an unfaithful womanizer in over the congregations.. yet now days how many pastors been married more than once and have brats for kids and been caught womanizing.. ?
it is a guideline for prayerful consideration.. but a none womanizing single man who has zipper zipped and can keep it zipped until God so find him a reason to marry.. is as good or better than anyone..
and why not a woman who can keep her zippers zipped ?
anyone prayerfully trustorthy of respect as paul was.. as steven was.. should be prayerfully considered an elder in the churches.. loving and faithful husband and wife teams are great ideas and are most common as a team......
but I am sure the First fellas didn'tmeet any of his requirments..
it is the point and intent of those rules that are the rules.
maybe not the exact wording..
at the start who were the bishop/ elders.. were they all married? Pauls is not marrried is he a bishop/ elder? does Paul who is single and ask that other remain so unmarried //// meet any of the qualifications baptist requires? what about Steven and heck any of the apostles? many were single...
these rules Baptist is demanding are just guildlines.. like don't put an unfaithful womanizer in over the congregations.. yet now days how many pastors been married more than once and have brats for kids and been caught womanizing.. ?
it is a guideline for prayerful consideration.. but a none womanizing single man who has zipper zipped and can keep it zipped until God so find him a reason to marry.. is as good or better than anyone..
and why not a woman who can keep her zippers zipped ?
anyone prayerfully trustorthy of respect as paul was.. as steven was.. should be prayerfully considered an elder in the churches.. loving and faithful husband and wife teams are great ideas and are most common as a team......
but I am sure the First fellas didn'tmeet any of his requirments..
it is the point and intent of those rules that are the rules.
maybe not the exact wording..
You're absolutely correct, like circumcision what do a woman do there, it's of the heart, for "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life". John 6:63 (kjv)
please of course.. these are general outlines not hardfast rules .. but things to be taken into prayerful considerations.. the intent of the law was Jesus main teachings.. intent is more important than an unbreakable code of rules that grow at mens commands...
the intent is of a person who is non abusive. not given to fall into sin( sins according to God ideas and defintions) and can raise up children with a moral intent and soft heart .. the intent of the laws you have created.. is most important ..
the intent of the recomendations is just that things to take into prayerful consideration when needed..
I completely believe in all of the recomendations.. but I will not limit God to only married men. I leave room for Debrah and Paulsand steven and who ever else can do that walk that they are to walk...
#2. "there is no woman pastor mentioned in 1 Cor 12:7-11. That's a passage referring to Spiritual gifts, not offices of the church".
LOL, LOL, LOL........ I see your lack of Knowledge of the word of God.
Look BaptistFundie, I see you know not the difference as to what a Spiritual Gift is as to what you calls an office. office is a western term mindset.
let me give you a hint, question, are Pastors A. Called. B. be Sent, or C. Given? which one. now i'm talking about Pastors. so give me your answer......
PICYJAG
Irrelevant. 1 Cor 12 isn't talking about pastors. It refers to gifts a pastor may or may not have, but not the same thing. Still waiting for you to address 1 Tim 3.
please of course.. these are general outlines not hardfast rules .. but things to be taken into prayerful considerations.. the intent of the law was Jesus main teachings.. intent is more important than an unbreakable code of rules that grow at mens commands...
the intent is of a person who is non abusive. not given to fall into sin and can raise up children with a moral intent and soft heart .. the intent of the laws you have created.. is most important than a set of codes .
the intent of the recomendations is just that things to take into prayerful consideration when needed..
I completely believe in all of the recomendations.. but I will not limit God to only married men. I leave room for Debrah and Paulsand steven and who ever else can do that walk that they are to walk...
And it says that an elder and deacon is assumed to be male. And in the previous chapter it says that a woman is not to teach or hold authority over a man.
Still waiting for you to explain how that means Paul was just joking. I'm sorry--I just don't know how to get around it.
And it says that an elder and deacon is assumed to be male. And in the previous chapter it says that a woman is not to teach or hold authority over a man.
Still waiting for you to explain how that means Paul was just joking. I'm sorry--I just don't know how to get around it.
but a she could be judge and prophet of Israel and lead men to battle?
H Paul is also talking to a culture ! please investigate that peticular culture before you make such huge sweeping statements..
had that culture degraded from a matrilineal one( of shared powers and authroties ) to a matriarchal one with feminized men ? ?
and h paul was needing the men in that society To stand up and take their places?
in a matriarchal society . so it is probably not a good idea to have women pastors in that Society only! until the men stand into their places. ..
if God wantsand his goal is shared powers and checks and balances in powers.
matriarchal societies are just as sinful as patriarchal societies right ? . his people were once matrilineal which is more of a shared power kind of system. the 7 churches are patterned after the 7 clans system is one of matrilineal shared inheritance and shared powers.
. when in fact he would demand a balance of powers as he provides the gifts and thus the checks and balance of powers.
a complete body of believers with all gifts functioning submitted one to another.. ..
Irrelevant. 1 Cor 12 isn't talking about pastors. It refers to gifts a pastor may or may not have, but not the same thing. Still waiting for you to address 1 Tim 3.
I'm going to put the scripture right in front of your face, 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit".
can you see it now? .......
1 Tim 3, been answered it.
but look BaptistFundie you're talking without saying anything constructive, if you need a conversation that's what facebook and tweeter are for.
I'm going to put the scripture right in front of your face, 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit".
can you see it now? .......
Do you believe all pastors have wisdom or words of knowledge by the Spirit? That's not what that passage is suggesting. It's a spiritual gift given to different people. Some have that gift, some don't. It's not the same as being named an elder, as Paul commands Timothy to name men who are able to teach, etc, as elders.
Quote:
1 Tim 3, been answered it.
Not really. You really have't explained how you can simply ignore the fact that it assumes an elder is a man.
Quote:
but look BaptistFundie you're talking without saying anything constructive, if you need a conversation that's what facebook and tweeter are for.
The apostle Paul establish the church at Rome from long distance. The saints there was in need of organization. By the Lord Jesus, the Holy Ghost, the apostle planted, establish the first Pastor/Bishop at Rome.
The letter, the epistle, which bare the city name, was sent by the apostle himself, and carried by hand of the newly appointed minister who was installed as Bishop to the saint at Rome.
The newly installed Bishop, is none other than our sister Phebe who was a Minister at the church which is at Cenchrea.
In helping out sister in this succession to Bishop is two other Bishops who are husband and wife, Priscilla and Aquila. Yes, here we have another women Bishop, and get this, Married. (well that should spark a reply because of 1 Timothy 3:2).
Many would say, “the church fathers have NOT such a letter in their possession”, to study and to rely on with confidence.
I must disagree, we have the Letter/epistle of the original church fathers. this Letter/epistle is not lost, but is found in our bibles, the Letters to the Romans.
Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Romans 16:2 "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Romans 16:3 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
In these 3 verses alone, we see the appointment of a newly installed Bishop at Rome.
But there are many women who was “ORDAINED” in many positions of leadership within the Church of God. Many has gone unnoticed for many of years, well that;s over with now.
This one Position of Ordained Leadership caught my attention because it went unnoticed in plain sight. This was the appointment of the First Bishop/Pastor at Rome.
I wonder if the Church there have examine this epistle closely, as to it’s revelation, and or consequences in the church today.
PICYJAG
The earliest manuscripts where Phoebe is mentioned use the word diakonos, or deacon, the same as used in Paul's letter to Timothy to describe church overseers. What's more, there was no feminine version of the word in classical Greek until centuries later. So translations that employ servant are not accurate translations. I won't comment on the motive for this.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 08-14-2018 at 03:46 PM..
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