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The Scriptures are not teaching oneness, or the trinity:
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Yes. Jesus is a man. And he's God. Scripture clearly teaches both. He has 2 natures, both God and man.
Now...IF Jesus is God, and the Spirit is God (and Scripture teaches that), and the Father is God....do you mean to suggest there are 3 God's? Logically, the only conclusion is that there is only 1 God, 3 persons.
There is no, Now...to it. Jesus is not God, if you begin with a fallacy; you end with a fallacy.
Yes. Jesus is a man. And he's God. Scripture clearly teaches both. He has 2 natures, both God and man.
Now...IF Jesus is God, and the Spirit is God (and Scripture teaches that), and the Father is God....do you mean to suggest there are 3 God's? Logically, the only conclusion is that there is only 1 God, 3 persons.
There is nothing logical about the bible or the god(s) it describes.
third, I can take this as you cannot answer the question?
No, you can take it that I see that you have not given any reason for considering it than your own ego trip, and I'm not interested. You can't seem to come up with a GOOD reason to believe your particular trip (or any other, for that matter).
Try this: what difference does it make to ME whether I believe it or not?
There is no, Now...to it. Jesus is not God, if you begin with a fallacy; you end with a fallacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
I'd rather people believe Jesus is God than believe that the wrathful, vengeful, murderous monster they read so much about in the OT is.
I can understand that, and although I may open up a can of eternal worms let me just say:
Jesus was a mortal man (if he existed at all which I believe he may have), not a hybrid god/man as depicted in the modern doctrine of the hypostatic union or Trinity. However, I cannot help but to see an intelligent design to the existence of humanity and the universe. Whether or not, one chooses to call it a higher power or label it as God is up to them. Personally, I use the term God.
Although I believe Jesus was not God or a god, he was the manifestation of how God wants men to live, which is to love their neighbor(s) as themselves; being merciful and forgiving. Which is clearly shown in his own thoughts, deeds and actions. It doesn’t make him divine, just more mature in the way he viewed life and lived in contrast to the rest of humanity.
If, all of us would exhibit the Grace of God, and the love of Christ Jesus this world would be a better place. Instead, many would rather preach about a wrathful and condemning god who punishes those who miss the mark. And nowhere do I see that he was sent to save the righteous, only those who have lost their way.
I could list various things that I, personally, do not believe to be true or accurate. But have found that people will believe, what they believe – until they no longer believe it. It is not up to me to convert anyone or their way of thinking to match that of my own. Although I do have a deep repugnance for those who judge and condemn others who are not like them.
I guess you could say that I am a person who bases their opinions and actions on reason and knowledge rather than on religious beliefs or emotional responses. You could further say that I am somewhat humanistic, yet I do not downplay the importance of believing in something greater than ourselves, or that of having faith - that all things work for the good of those who love others.
Peace, be with you always as you journey through this life.
There is no, Now...to it. Jesus is not God, if you begin with a fallacy; you end with a fallacy.
The Bible says that Jesus is God. The Gospel of John emphasizes the deity of Jesus. The writer of Hebrews states that Jesus is God. Jesus Himself claimed to be God (yes, he did.) You keep saying that he isn't God. Since you claim that Jesus is not God despite what the Biblical writers say, then what do you claim that Jesus is and on what basis do you support your claim?
Addendum:
After posting this I see that you basically already answered the question in the post just prior to this. It seems that you aren't even sure that there was a Jesus.
I can understand that, and although I may open up a can of eternal worms let me just say:
Jesus was a mortal man (if he existed at all which I believe he may have), not a hybrid god/man as depicted in the modern doctrine of the hypostatic union or Trinity. However, I cannot help but to see an intelligent design to the existence of humanity and the universe. Whether or not, one chooses to call it a higher power or label it as God is up to them. Personally, I use the term God.
Although I believe Jesus was not God or a god, he was the manifestation of how God wants men to live, which is to love their neighbor(s) as themselves; being merciful and forgiving. Which is clearly shown in his own thoughts, deeds and actions. It doesn’t make him divine, just more mature in the way he viewed life and lived in contrast to the rest of humanity.
If, all of us would exhibit the Grace of God, and the love of Christ Jesus this world would be a better place. Instead, many would rather preach about a wrathful and condemning god who punishes those who miss the mark. And nowhere do I see that he was sent to save the righteous, only those who have lost their way.
I could list various things that I, personally, do not believe to be true or accurate. But have found that people will believe, what they believe – until they no longer believe it. It is not up to me to convert anyone or their way of thinking to match that of my own. Although I do have a deep repugnance for those who judge and condemn others who are not like them.
I guess you could say that I am a person who bases their opinions and actions on reason and knowledge rather than on religious beliefs or emotional responses. You could further say that I am somewhat humanistic, yet I do not downplay the importance of believing in something greater than ourselves, or that of having faith - that all things work for the good of those who love others.
Peace, be with you always as you journey through this life.
What a great post! I love your fortune cookies, Jer, but I really appreciate when you give a bigger glimpse of your heart and mind.
No, you can take it that I see that you have not given any reason for considering it than your own ego trip, and I'm not interested. You can't seem to come up with a GOOD reason to believe your particular trip (or any other, for that matter).
Try this: what difference does it make to ME whether I believe it or not?
First thanks for the reply, second, so your interjection was for you then... LOL, LOL, LOL.
as for you, I refer to Revelation 22:11. ...
now for others, my point is this "diversified Oneness" is based on God the Spirit as the "share" of a numerical difference of the SAME PERSON as G243 allos states vs the separation of God as three persons.
so I see you cannot, or is willing not to understand nor accept, this concept, which is bible based.
The Bible says that Jesus is God. The Gospel of John emphasizes the deity of Jesus. The writer of Hebrews states that Jesus is God. Jesus Himself claimed to be God (yes, he did.) You keep saying that he isn't God. Since you claim that Jesus is not God despite what the Biblical writers say, then what do you claim that Jesus is and on what basis do you support your claim?
Addendum:
After posting this I see that you basically already answered the question in the post just prior to this. It seems that you aren't even sure that there was a Jesus.
That is correct, and I do not live my life according to the dogma that is taught by people such as yourself. I have listened to that for well over a half-century, while studying Scriptures and the various languages themselves. But I have a greater faith and hope than that of people being bullies on the playground. And I do not see that believing that Jesus is God or a god changes they way people should live out their lives in peace and harmony for the well-being of everyone on this planet. Religion such as yours CREATES ONLY DIVISION AND SEPARATION.
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let me just say:
