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Ezekiel 18
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Yechezkel - Ezekiel - Chapter 18
24 And when the righteous repents of his righteousness and does wrong and does like all the abominations that the wicked man did, shall he live? All his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered; in his treachery that he has perpetrated and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.
Rashi:
All his righteous deeds, etc., shall not be remembered: Our Sages qualified this as referring to one who regrets them.
Are you really going to attempt to tell everyone here that after you repented of a sin that you never repeated it?...
My initial comment to Mystic was in response to this statement of his:
What are you using as your basis for believing that a birth can occur without a pregnancy period for the embryo to develop, whether Flesh OR Spirit????
I know what pregnant means and the fact that our spirits clearly do go from immature to mature over time has nothing to do with pregnancy. I realize that Mystic was speaking metaphorically; that's what mystics do, isn't it? This one just doesn't work for me. I know what pregnant means and while I do not dispute the fact that our spirits clearly do go from immature to mature over time, I find this to be a silly caricature. There are so many flaws in this analogy that it's useless.
I suspect your refusal to acknowledge that our spiritual maturation is embryonic stems from your carnal belief in a physical resurrection and a belief that what we see as spiritual maturity is the end game. It is not. It is barely scratching the surface of true Spiritual maturity. Spirits exist in a different milieu than our physical world. The experiences of our physical world have no counterpart in the Spirit world. I realize this goes against everything you believe about the next stage since you expect your physical marriage to continue. You probably envision the next stage in the same way you see our current existence as physical beings. I see it as abandoning all physicality.
Our consciousness is forming the fundamentals of our "spiritual body" - things like our character and principles toward life and others. These abstract cognitive concepts and attributes may not seem as obviously part of a "spiritual body" as the physical arms and legs and organs are part of a physical embryo, but they are every bit as fundamental to achieving rebirth as Spirit as the former is to our physical birth. My imagination is inadequate to envision what a purely spiritual existence will be like, but I am fairly certain it will not be anything like this physical existence.
What are you using as your basis for believing that a birth can occur without a pregnancy period for the embryo to develop, whether Flesh OR Spirit???? Why do you think we are told that what we sow must die before it is quickened into a new life???? You believers in magic ignore the very foundations of our reality and its processes at your peril.
How do you figure that? You're the one basically promoting nothing major happens until you physically die, literally. You DIE TO SELF in this life, and THAT is how your spirit man matures. Death of the body, has absolutely no benefit to your Spirit man at all. All it does is rob Him of a temple to dwell in; it is a THIEF, and an enemy. Why do you think the last enemy to be OVERCOME is death?
You don't overcome death by dying, you overcome it BY NOT DYING. Death is our enemy, but man has been dying for so long he now thinks it's "normal". In reality, it's not, it's a byproduct of the fall in the garden. He said He was going to do a thing in the last days that we would not believe even if someone told us. It's because HE has to tell you, personally. Ask Him. Blessings....
How do you figure that? You're the one basically promoting nothing major happens until you physically die, literally.
How do you figure that. What major happens is you are conceived (as a spiritual insemination) by God and you begin your spiritual existence as a child of God. This life is the spiritual pregnancy period as your spiritual embryo matures until your physical death, which is a spiritual Birth. That is the baptism that the Holy Spirit baptizes with NOT the Baptism of John.
John 1:26,
. . . I baptize with water; but in the midst of you there stood one whom you do not know. He it is who is to come after me, who has been set above me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to loose.
How could what he did be not worthy, if water baptism was so crucial to salvation?
John 1:31,
. . . And I did not know him. But that he may be known to Israel, for this reason, have I come baptizing with water.
The baptism was to identify Jesus . . . not save anyone.
and John 1:33,
. . . And I did not know him. But he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He upon whom thou wilt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, he it is who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'
If as you believe Jesus's real baptism was the one given by John (and the one we need to emulate) . . . then WHY did Jesus repeatedly refer to the baptism He had to be baptized with AFTER having been baptized by John?
Luke 12:50 (New King James Version)
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!
The baptism Jesus was to be baptized with was death and rebirth as Spirit (Holy Spirit) . . . since His consciousness is the ONLY human one that actually contained the complete Holy Spirit of God (Identical) and He could thereby make it available to the rest of us as the Comforter and guide within the collective human consciousness.
This is the purpose of baptism acquiring the Holy Spirit (inner guidance) . . . to spiritually mature sufficiently through "love of God and each other" to be reborn after death as Spirit . . . as Jesus was.
Romans 6:4 (King James Version)
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
The Holy Spirit within us (Comforter) guides our embryo souls to develop properly within the "water of life" that surrounds our brain - the spiritual amniotic fluid for our embryo Spirit.
How do you figure that. What major happens is you are conceived (as a spiritual insemination) by God and you begin your spiritual existence as a child of God. This life is the spiritual pregnancy period as your spiritual embryo matures until your physical death, which is a spiritual Birth. That is the baptism that the Holy Spirit baptizes with NOT the Baptism of John.
John 1:26,
. . . I baptize with water; but in the midst of you there stood one whom you do not know. He it is who is to come after me, who has been set above me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to loose.
How could what he did be not worthy, if water baptism was so crucial to salvation?
John 1:31,
. . . And I did not know him. But that he may be known to Israel, for this reason, have I come baptizing with water.
The baptism was to identify Jesus . . . not save anyone.
and John 1:33,
. . . And I did not know him. But he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He upon whom thou wilt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, he it is who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'
If as you believe Jesus's real baptism was the one given by John (and the one we need to emulate) . . . then WHY did Jesus repeatedly refer to the baptism He had to be baptized with AFTER having been baptized by John?
Luke 12:50 (New King James Version)
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!
The baptism Jesus was to be baptized with was death and rebirth as Spirit (Holy Spirit) . . . since His consciousness is the ONLY human one that actually contained the complete Holy Spirit of God (Identical) and He could thereby make it available to the rest of us as the Comforter and guide within the collective human consciousness.
This is the purpose of baptism acquiring the Holy Spirit (inner guidance) . . . to spiritually mature sufficiently through "love of God and each other" to be reborn after death as Spirit . . . as Jesus was.
Romans 6:4 (King James Version)
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
The Holy Spirit within us (Comforter) guides our embryo souls to develop properly within the "water of life" that surrounds our brain - the spiritual amniotic fluid for our embryo Spirit.
No, first baptism is water to symbolize being baptized into the likeness of His death. Second baptism is to be baptized in His Spirit, which is the Holy Ghost and is fire, and it is being baptized into the likeness of His life, which is one of power, the power of the Holy Ghost, symbolic of being raised up like being resurrected from the dead (the water one is like being lowered into a grave). Jesus told John that BOTH baptisms were necessary for ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. Thus also, the scripture about those who have a form of Godliness, but deny the POWER thereof. In proper context, it all makes perfect sense. Out of context, it's a mess.....Blessings...
At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!
“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP
“having forgotten hispurification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV
“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB
Now for some confirming NT passages …
Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s). They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.
“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)
“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)
Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people: “Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent. … what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time … Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)
John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins: “But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT) “This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)
2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father: “My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)
Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.
in my opinion, jesus path is a development, not self righteous perfection
excuse unedited grammar
note: this is my own interpretation
paul letters are often stoic because they were appealing to* a stoic gentile audience
in romans chapter 14, pauls uses* eating as a* metaphor to illustrate that we are* all essentially unique individuals, and that judging or condemning is not of the spirit.
as individuals, we have our own unique perferences, interests, quirks and flaws
paul uses eating as a metaphor to illustrate that we are all unique individuals with our* own perferences and interests; therefore, it is futile to judge or condemn others because god will essentially review us individually
jesus sermon and parables teach that we shouldnt judge or comdemn because we are all imperfect; therefore, it is easier to forgive others or* forgive those who struggle with forgiving.
jesus taught to refrain from judging* because we are all* essentally imperfect.* how can one judge another imperfections if they themselves are imperfect?
that is Why jesus spoke this parable:
"how do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye? Or how can you tell your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,’ when you yourself don’t see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye* "
we are born imperfect in an imperfect world to physically develop. our phyical development through the formative years may lead us to question our existence.
though it is not scientifically proven, i believe that we are endowed with a moral compass
even when we find jesus, we shouldnt be hard on our selves or others for being fallible. the spirit requires its own development which means that we are essentially fallible. people tend to be hard on themselves for succumbing to fallibility. they often burden themselves with the thought of hell, even though their mistake is quite minor. the people who burden themselves should realize that the spirit is a development. one worries about being perfect, but tends to forget the imperfection of the apostle peter.
jesus taught to refrain from judging or condemning because we are all spiritually developing. that is why he emphasised* both forgiveness and mercy
when jesus conversed with nicodemus, he illustrated that we are born imperfect and that our purpose is to develop to be reborn, being reborn, however, does not mean that one is essentiallg perfect and self righteous. the spirit is a development.
the apostle peter was not perfect; he was developing spiritually. peter represents all of us who find god but remain imperfect. the spirit is a development; it requires one to be fallible. there are people who burden themselves with the the thought of hell because they succumb to fallbility. these people tend to forget about peter's imperfection. the spirit is a development.
here is jesus conversation with nicodemus that clarifies that we are born imperfect in the flesh:
"John 3:3-12 (WEB)
3 Jesus answered him, “Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see the Kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can’t enter into the Kingdom of God!
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus answered him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and don’t understand these things?
11 Most certainly I tell you, we speak that which we know, and testify of that which we have seen, and you don’t receive our witness.
12 If I told you earthly things and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"
paul uses eating as a metaphor to illustrate that we are all individuals with unique preferences, interests and unique flaws
he illustrates this in the entire chapter of romans 14.
here are a few verses:
Romans 14:1, 3-4, 19 (WEB)
1 Now accept one who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions.
3 Don’t let him who eats despise him who doesn’t eat. Don’t let him who doesn’t eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him.
4 Who are you who judge another’s servant? To his own lord he stands or falls. Yes, he will be made to stand, for God has power to make him stand.
19 So then, let us follow after things which make for peace, and things by which we may build one another up.
Romans 14:10 (WEB)* But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
paul letters are often stoic because they were appealing to* a stoic gentile audience
in romans chapter 14, pauls uses* eating as a* metaphor to illustrate that we are* all essentially unique individuals, and that judging or condemning is not of the spirit.
as individuals, we have our own unique perferences, interests, quirks and flaws
paul uses eating as a metaphor to illustrate that we are all unique individuals with our* own perferences and interests; therefore, it is futile to judge or condemn others because god will essentially review us individually
jesus sermon and parables teach that we shouldnt judge or comdemn because we are all imperfect; therefore, it is easier to forgive others or* forgive those who struggle with forgiving.
jesus taught to refrain from judging* because we are all* essentally imperfect.* how can one judge another imperfections if they themselves are imperfect?
that is Why jesus spoke this parable:
"how do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye, but don’t consider the beam that is in your own eye? Or how can you tell your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,’ when you yourself don’t see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother’s eye* "
we are born imperfect in an imperfect world to physically develop. our phyical development through the formative years may lead us to question our existence.
though it is not scientifically proven, i believe that we are endowed with a moral compass
even when we find jesus, we shouldnt be hard on our selves or others for being fallible. the spirit requires its own development which means that we are essentially fallible. people tend to be hard on themselves for succumbing to fallibility. they often burden themselves with the thought of hell, even though their mistake is quite minor. the people who burden themselves should realize that the spirit is a development. one worries about being perfect, but tends to forget the imperfection of the apostle peter.
jesus taught to refrain from judging or condemning because we are all spiritually developing. that is why he emphasised* both forgiveness and mercy
when jesus conversed with nicodemus, he illustrated that we are born imperfect and that our purpose is to develop to be reborn, being reborn, however, does not mean that one is essentiallg perfect and self righteous. the spirit is a development.
the apostle peter was not perfect; he was developing spiritually. peter represents all of us who find god but remain imperfect. the spirit is a development; it requires one to be fallible. there are people who burden themselves with the the thought of hell because they succumb to fallbility. these people tend to forget about peter's imperfection. the spirit is a development.
here is jesus conversation with nicodemus that clarifies that we are born imperfect in the flesh:
"John 3:3-12 (WEB)
3 Jesus answered him, “Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see the Kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can’t enter into the Kingdom of God!
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus answered him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and don’t understand these things?
11 Most certainly I tell you, we speak that which we know, and testify of that which we have seen, and you don’t receive our witness.
12 If I told you earthly things and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"
paul uses eating as a metaphor to illustrate that we are all individuals with unique preferences, interests and unique flaws
he illustrates this in the entire chapter of romans 14.
here are a few verses:
Romans 14:1, 3-4, 19 (WEB)
1 Now accept one who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions.
3 Don’t let him who eats despise him who doesn’t eat. Don’t let him who doesn’t eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him.
4 Who are you who judge another’s servant? To his own lord he stands or falls. Yes, he will be made to stand, for God has power to make him stand.
19 So then, let us follow after things which make for peace, and things by which we may build one another up.
Romans 14:10 (WEB)* But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
GINOLJC, to all.
1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ".
Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way".
GINOLJC, to all.
1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ".
Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way".
PICYJAG.
i dont want my previous post to be intepreted as jumbled propaganda.
paul used eating as a metaphor to illustrate that we are all unique individuals with our own quirks, preferences and interests; therefore, we shouldnt judge or condemn others.
the previous message comprised of an incoherent message with unedited cell phone grammar
as a christian i dont convert others or persaude people to interepret things differently.
Romans 14:2-4, 6 (ASV)
2 One man hath faith to eat all things: but he that is weak eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth set at nought him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
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This one just doesn't work for me. I know what pregnant means and while I do not dispute the fact that our spirits clearly do go from immature to mature over time, I find this to be a silly caricature. There are so many flaws in this analogy that it's useless.
in my opinion, jesus path is a development, not self righteous perfection
