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Romans 5:8-9 - But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
John 3:36 - "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 - For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Ok, what is the wrath of God. Anyone who believes in retribution is of the devil as far as i am concerned, especially when Jesus was one who forgave those who freely without questionthose who did not know what whey were they doing.
Romans 5:8-9 - But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
John 3:36 - "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 - For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
God demonstrates love, the same love to save us from HIS wrath. Love saves us from wrath(whatever it is you believe Is wrath) . so come on Doc Rob, what is the wrath of God, when you were an unbeliever(and still are as far as i am concerned) the wrath of God was upon you, what did it feel like?. Exactly!!!!, like you were separated from God and everyone who believes in separation feels that way, why?, because a separation mentality from the source is always under condemnation, worse still the same mentality projects te same separation/condemnation on the world. Yea, God loves you, but you are under condemnation until you believe God loves you. How perverse is that Doc?.
If wrath was upon you, you would have felt it, you cannot dispute that.
Romans 5:8-9 - But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
John 3:36 - "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 - For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Can I ask, if you truly believe God to be this wrathful and vengeful monster, why on earth would you claim to love and worship Him????
Probably worse than a city being destroyed by fire from heaven - according to Jesus.
Luke 10:11-14 -
"'Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.' 12 "I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. 13 Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 "But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Anyone who believes in retribution is of the devil as far as i am concerned, especially when Jesus was one who forgave those who freely without questionthose who did not know what whey were they doing.
Can I ask, if you truly believe God to be this wrathful and vengeful monster, why on earth would you claim to love and worship Him????
1- Because He revealed Himself to me.
2- Because in His love, He provided the way through Christ's death and physical resurrection to save me from His wrath to come.
3- His wrath is not necessarily rooted in vengeance... but it is in His character how much He hates sin. Love is also part of His character, and it is shown in the sending of His Son to be the sacrifice for sins.
4- Also, it is from the daily relationship that I have with Him.
Probably worse than a city being destroyed by fire from heaven - according to Jesus.
Luke 10:13-14 -
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 "But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you.
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Well, that's the bible believing church well and truly ******. then. Do you actually realize who he was saying this to?, of course you don't, the very same people under the same mindset YOU have about God. This goes back right to what i said, as a man thinks in his heart so is he,* you believe BS and attract that same BS,wrath upon yourselves, prostitutes, publicans and the like welcomed the true reality of God portrayed by the Christ, the same mindest folk of you remained under the wrathful God you believed and feared.
You're believing in Jesus to save you from the hell you have great faith in, is a band aid that will never take away the self condemnation you are under away from you, that is why you bang on about condemnation, because i t is so real to you, more real than the love of God could ever be to you. So, no matter how many times you quote the bible verses you think confirm your beliefs, you are insecure because of your strong beliefs in hell and the wrath to come.
2- Because in His love, He provided the way through Christ's death and physical resurrection to save me from His wrath to come.
3- His wrath is not necessarily rooted in vengeance... but it is in His character how much He hates sin. Love is also part of His character, and it is shown in the sending of His Son to be the sacrifice for sins.
4- Also, it is from the daily relationship that I have with Him.
So using this same mentality, did you bring your children up under the same manner...... You failed my desire for you, therefore you must need saving from my wrath. This line of thought i don't believe even ignorant savages held too of bygone days, how the hell in the 21st century are christians of all people believing in this kind of proposterous perverse way of thinking?. No wonder the wrath you believe in, is coming upon you.
Doc Rob, I am convinced that the wrath of God exists only for those who believe in it(God obliges you with such illusional thinking), for to believe in it, without a shadow of doubt must have a profound infuence on how you view God, yourself and your neighbor.
That which "I" greatly feared as come upon me. These are the words of Job, now Dr Robert, what do you think was the cause here?. Remember that scripture that i keep bringing up...... As a man thinks in his heart so is he . To put it bluntly to you, God is freeing you from the wrath you believe in, there is no wrath other than the wrath you believe in.
2- Because in His love, He provided the way through Christ's death and physical resurrection to save me from His wrath to come.
3- His wrath is not necessarily rooted in vengeance... but it is in His character how much He hates sin. Love is also part of His character, and it is shown in the sending of His Son to be the sacrifice for sins.
4- Also, it is from the daily relationship that I have with Him.
2- Because in His love, He provided the way through Christ's death and physical resurrection to save me from His wrath to come.
3- His wrath is not necessarily rooted in vengeance... but it is in His character how much He hates sin. Love is also part of His character, and it is shown in the sending of His Son to be the sacrifice for sins.
4- Also, it is from the daily relationship that I have with Him.
But what of those of us who to whom this special relationship never came? To those who begged Jesus to come into their heart, or to deliver them from some evil, only to get crickets in response, and then concluded that the angry, vengeful, mean Jesus presented to us was not real?
Your perspective is not much different from the financially comfortable who look upon those who struggle with puzzlement wondering why they don't feel secure.
I returned to a church in late adulthood against my better judgment to try to figure out what the hell the attraction was, what I was missing, and my conclusion is that I like Jesus as a person better than I did as a god, and I like God better as a non-person than I did as the angry, wrathful, gonna-get-you, rotten-sinner deity on which I was raised.
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