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What if the wife is much better in the leadership role, does she submit to his ignorance?
Or, is she to lead and guide her family in the way they should go, nurturing the husband?
The man is headed by Jesus. That is the arrangement. And since Jesus taught--Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God. They have listened and obeyed Jesus and studied carefully. And know exactly The Fathers will on these matters.( Matthew 7:21)
Segregated churchs all through the bible belt. Not out of love.
No man knows who is actually saved or born again enough to assure them they are.. I say run from those teachers. They do not know-Matthew10:22)2Corinthians 11:12-15.
Evangelical/pentecostal churches tend to be more integrated. A church like the Methodist is pretty segregated because the black Methodists formed their own group called African Methodist Episcopal. There are a lot lf black Baptist and black pentecostal churches such as COGIC.
Your implication that SB view women as inferior is incorrect. We view men and women as having different agencies. From the Baptist Faith & Message:
The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in Gods image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to his people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation.
That's another falsehood. I was in the SBC before it became even more narrow than it was. In the late eighties, early nineties, the Lottie Moon Christmas Offering was administered by the WMU. I forget which president of the convention came in and convinced the overwhelming number of men delegates that an oversight committee needed to assure that LMO was being "correctly" administered. This, despite the fact that there had never been a single charge of malfeasance nor incompetency leveled at the WMU in over 100 years.
Of course, the very first oversight committee was 100% male. Since then they have allowed "token" women on the oversight committee.
About that same time they began their tirade about gays. I was saved in an SBC church in 1963 and, because my father was in the AF we moved around a lot and always found an SBC church. Never did I hear a word uttered against homosexuals until that same time frame when it came to the forefront of their policies.
And you can read the history of the SBC as to how a certain political party literally planned a takeover of the SBC. And they took a lesson right from the Third Reich with regard to finding a group of people to demonize and get good "christians" to focus all their frustrations upon.
Quote:
On Aug. 21, 1980, 15,000 Christian conservatives gathered in Dallas for probably the single most important religio-political moment in modern American life. With Ronald Reagan, then the Republican nominee for president, joining a who’s who list of conservative Christian leaders on the stage, the event served in many ways as the marriage ceremony between Southern Baptists and the Republican Party.
------------
During his speech in Dallas, Reagan famously told the Christian leaders, “I know you can’t endorse me … but I want you to know that I endorse you and what you are doing.” He expressed his belief that America needed to return to God and “that old-time religion” in order to become “that shining city upon a hill.” He also urged people to recognize that the Bible has the answers to all the questions and problems confronting the nation, and he endorsed the teaching of creationism in public schools.
Somewhere in the late eighties, I remember the SBC representative in Washington complaining that the denomination no longer supported separation of church and schools (as part of the concept of separation of church and state, a principle which had been a solid SBC position. The history can be seen changing its position as god's own party took over. Here is a link for any to read about the steady downward spiral of the SBC from the great evangelistic organization it had been, to its role that I see as a political pulpit. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SBC+r......-a094160859
As you know, jimmie, I attended an SBC college and am a single course short of having a double minor in sociology and Bible Studies. And I had both liberal and conservative bible professors.
The SBC you are living in is a shell of the mighty institution of fairness and openness it once was.
I don't know a lot about Baptists and Evangelicals, but combined they probably are the largest block of Christians in the US. The vast majority of black Americans fall into that category as well as most southern whites in the Bible Belt. There is also a lot of more modern evangelical type churches, that do Hillsong and cater to the younger crowd. There churches are like movie theaters, with coffee bars, lots of singing, etc. They are all independent, so depending on where you go (black baptist church, white baptist church, new evangelical church, etc), they will all be very different.
I am born and raised Catholic, and had a phase where I explored some of the evangelical churches, but something felt empty about them. That's not to say they don't love Christ and aren't very good Christians, but the Holy Spirit definitely led me back home. The one I went to had a coffee bar, movie theater seating, sold food, and had a rock band with praise and worship. It was cool for a while, but didn't feel like "church." I missed seeing Jesus, the stations of the cross, Mary, and Joseph. It was hard for me to feel the intimate connection with God in an evangelical church, but many people do and there were many wonderful people, so check it out. I have been to a baptist church a few times and it was very different for me.
personone, those are usually big budget churches and tend to be less of what you would call pentecostal. Little p pentecostalism is not big p Pentecostalism or UPC but they have some similarities and UPC comes out of the early emerging pentecostal movement. The pentecostal churches are evangelical, conservative, tend to be small to medium sized congregations, and tend not to have the services or desire to have the services of consumer friendly churches. I suspect that if you had a church like that that you could go to that your experience would have been different. I fully agree with you about the kinds of churches that you talked about. They are empty and do not have anything to draw me in. They just seem like big social clubs.
personone, those are usually big budget churches and tend to be less of what you would call pentecostal. Little p pentecostalism is not big p Pentecostalism or UPC but they have some similarities and UPC comes out of the early emerging pentecostal movement. The pentecostal churches are evangelical, conservative, tend to be small to medium sized congregations, and tend not to have the services or desire to have the services of consumer friendly churches. I suspect that if you had a church like that that you could go to that your experience would have been different. I fully agree with you about the kinds of churches that you talked about. They are empty and do not have anything to draw me in. They just seem like big social clubs.
Agree. pentecostal probably have their own unique feel. Baptists have wide variety of flavors (the huge black Baptist church, southern baptists, small local Baptists, etc). As do “evangelicals,” which seem to be a term that covers so many different types of churches from modern/new age, conservative pentecostals, small fellowship churches, etc. I’m sure they are all unique, so Baptists and Evangelicals are broad terms. They are not all like the loud spectacle/entertainment type churches you see on TV.
I fit your catagory, and my beliefs are based on The Bible, and my experience with God thru Jesus Christ in my life. It's not about being a Baptist, or living in the South. Denominations are mans idea- not Gods. It's about trusting God and His Word, and cultivating a growing and personal relationship with Him thru taking time with Him, studying His Word, being obedient, and helping others.
That's another falsehood. I was in the SBC before it became even more narrow than it was. In the late eighties, early nineties, the Lottie Moon Christmas Offering was administered by the WMU. I forget which president of the convention came in and convinced the overwhelming number of men delegates that an oversight committee needed to assure that LMO was being "correctly" administered. This, despite the fact that there had never been a single charge of malfeasance nor incompetency leveled at the WMU in over 100 years.
Of course, the very first oversight committee was 100% male. Since then they have allowed "token" women on the oversight committee.
About that same time they began their tirade about gays. I was saved in an SBC church in 1963 and, because my father was in the AF we moved around a lot and always found an SBC church. Never did I hear a word uttered against homosexuals until that same time frame when it came to the forefront of their policies.
And you can read the history of the SBC as to how a certain political party literally planned a takeover of the SBC. And they took a lesson right from the Third Reich with regard to finding a group of people to demonize and get good "christians" to focus all their frustrations upon.
Somewhere in the late eighties, I remember the SBC representative in Washington complaining that the denomination no longer supported separation of church and schools (as part of the concept of separation of church and state, a principle which had been a solid SBC position. The history can be seen changing its position as god's own party took over. Here is a link for any to read about the steady downward spiral of the SBC from the great evangelistic organization it had been, to its role that I see as a political pulpit. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SBC+r......-a094160859
As you know, jimmie, I attended an SBC college and am a single course short of having a double minor in sociology and Bible Studies. And I had both liberal and conservative bible professors.
The SBC you are living in is a shell of the mighty institution of fairness and openness it once was.
I have been in the SB church for 60 years. I know it has changed. Nevertheless, my point stands.
Your implication that SB view women as inferior is incorrect. We view men and women as having different agencies. From the Baptist Faith & Message:
The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in Gods image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to his people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
What if the wife is much better in the leadership role, does she submit to his ignorance?
Or, is she to lead and guide her family in the way they should go, nurturing the husband?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47
The man is headed by Jesus. That is the arrangement. And since Jesus taught--Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God. They have listened and obeyed Jesus and studied carefully. And know exactly The Fathers will on these matters. (Matthew 7:21)
In other words, men need more guidance as the women are more intuitive and natural nurturers.
Women tend to slip into heresy more easily than the man, and therefore should not be the writers of doctrine.
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