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Is there a contradiction or am I misunderstanding things?
In Luke Peter denies 3 times, remembers the words of Jesus and AFTER that Jesus states He will sit at the right hand of God v69
In Mark and Matthew Jesus states He will sit at the right hand of God BEFORE Peter denies and remembers Jesus' words.
Please note "do we need any further witness?" is mentioned by all three writers.
The renting of the garment is mentioned in Mark and Matthew.
Luke 22:57 Peter denies.
Luke 22:58 Peter denies.
...
Luke 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the **** crew.
Luke 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the <rooster> crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Luke 22:62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
...
Luke 22:66 And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
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Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
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Luke 22:71 And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mark 14:63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
Mark 14:68 Peter denies.
Mark 14:71 Peter denies.
Mark 14:72 And the second time the <rooster> crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the <rooster> crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
Matt 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Matt 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
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Matt 26:70 Peter denies
Matt 26:72 Peter denies
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Matt 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the <rooster>crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 06-17-2019 at 02:13 PM..
Reason: Mod edit: Substituted synonym for word that the overzealous filter asterisked out.
You're not asking whether there's a contraction between Mark 14:30 which says that before the rooster crows twice Peter would deny Jesus three times, and Luke 22:34 which says the rooster won't crow (at all) until Peter denies Jesus three times.
You're asking if there's a contradiction because Matthew/Mark report Peter's denial of Jesus before reporting on Jesus' statement to the high priest and Luke reports on Peter's denial of Jesus after Jesus' statement to the high priest. I think it's just a matter of in which order they chose to mention the events in their Gospels without implying a chronological sequence to the two events. There's nothing in the texts which would demand that Peter's denial of Jesus occurred either before or after Jesus' statement. It's just a matter of the order in which the Gospel writers chose to mention things.
Now as for whether the rooster crowed twice before Peter denied Jesus, or didn't crow at all until Peter denied Jesus, that's a different issue.
Last edited by Michael Way; 06-17-2019 at 02:18 PM..
There are many contradictions that are more tenuous. Why are you interested in this one? Compiling a list? There are many.
I know there are plenty of such list on atheist website. They act wise but the list don't show that wisdom to put it mildly.
I'll quote the first one I found on a Atheist website.
Quote:
“… the earth abideth for ever.†— Ecclesiastes 1:4
“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.†— 2Peter 3:10
The meaning of the second verse should common knowledge. The four elements were one of the favorite topics of Greek philosophers.
You know, I have no problems with atheists, I have no problem with the fact they compile lists.
I just can't comprehend they want to make fools of themselves by listing 'contradictions' every atheist that didn't quit at high school should know. Well at least that's the situation where I live (Europe).
Is the Bible inherent? Nope. Manuscripts show truckloads of copying errors. Mostly small spelling errors. Some missing verses. But that's has nothing to do do with being inspired or not. That's just messing up translations.
Half of those 'contradictions' at Atheist sites, I solve a reading speed. Another part takes a small word study. Some 'contradictions' are more like riddles. Like the OP. Gonna work on it this weekend because I think I found a few clue's to align everything perfectly.
This was my first and last reply on this topic. I'm not gonna waste my time with endless debates.
You're not asking whether there's a contraction between Mark 14:30 which says that before the rooster crows twice Peter would deny Jesus three times, and Luke 22:34 which says the rooster won't crow (at all) until Peter denies Jesus three times.
Thanks for bringing that one to my attention. That 'contradiction' made me look a bit deeper.
I found a few leads I'll investigate this weekend. By the sound of it, those are two different prophesies.
The wording is quite similar but spoken to different groups.
An extremely simplified summary.
Jesus: Mike you will meet retired pastor Bob at Kroger next Saturday before your wife calls you.
Jesus: Hi guys, Mike's wife will call him 3 times next Saturday until he finally picks up his phone at Wallmart while he's talking to pastor Bob.
Sounds like a contradiction?
Solution:
You meet pastor Bob at Kroger before your wife calls.
You go to Wallmart later that day.
You bump into pastor Bob again and start talking.
Only then you notice 2 missed calls on your phone and your wife calling again.
See, you meet pastor Bob twice that day, at two different places. Jesus made two different predictions to different people. But they both involved Bob, Mike, wife and phone.
Thanks for bringing that one to my attention. That 'contradiction' made me look a bit deeper.
I found a few leads I'll investigate this weekend. By the sound of it, those are two different prophesies.
The wording is quite similar but spoken to different groups.
An extremely simplified summary.
Jesus: Mike you will meet retired pastor Bob at Kroger next Saturday before your wife calls you.
Jesus: Hi guys, Mike's wife will call him 3 times next Saturday until he finally picks up his phone at Wallmart while he's talking to pastor Bob.
Sounds like a contradiction?
Solution:
You meet pastor Bob at Kroger before your wife calls.
You go to Wallmart later that day.
You bump into pastor Bob again and start talking.
Only then you notice 2 missed calls on your phone and your wife calling again.
See, you meet pastor Bob twice that day, at two different places. Jesus made two different predictions to different people. But they both involved Bob, Mike, wife and phone.
No. There's a simpler solution which is that the Gospel writers were simply following two slightly different traditions that were passed down about the same event so that Mark in Mark 14:30 has Jesus saying that before the rooster crows twice Peter would deny Jesus three times, and Luke in Luke 22:34 has Jesus saying that the rooster won't crow (at all) until Peter denies Jesus three times.
The two are conveying essentially the same information which is that Peter would deny Jesus three times. They simply differ as to when Peter makes the denial relative to when the rooster crows. Not a big deal.
There are contradictions all over the place in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. A much more important one would be Christ's last words. Is it "My God, why have you forsaken me," as described in Matthew and Mark, "Father into your hands I commend my spirit," as in Luke, or "It is finished," as in John.
Three utterly different accounts that each had a clear cause-and-effect sequence where Christ speaks his final words, then dies. Each has a completely different set of implications. Given the importance of the event in the Christian imagination, and given how many bore witness, it would be very strange for him to have spoken all three and each author only scribbled down one. That means only one account, if any, of these accounts can be correct.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 06-19-2019 at 12:50 PM..
There are contradictions all over the place in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. A much more important one would be Christ's last words. Is it "My God, why have you forsaken me," as described in Matthew and Mark, "Father into your hands I commend my spirit," as in Luke, or "It is finished," as in John.
Three utterly different accounts that each had a clear cause-and-effect sequence where Christ speaks his final words, then dies. Each has a completely different set of implications. Given the importance of the event in the Christian imagination, and given how many bore witness, it would be very strange for him to have spoken all three and each author only scribbled down one. That means only one account, if any, of these accounts can be correct.
I disagree that the recorded words of Jesus as He hung on the cross present a contradiction. And here's why.
Both Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34 record Jesus' statement in which He cried out, ''My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me.'' That is the only statement of Jesus that Matthew chose to record. Mark on the other hand also records in Mark 15:37 that Jesus said something else afterward after which He breathed His last. But Mark doesn't tell us the content of that last statement.
Luke however does tell us the content of Jesus' last statement . . .''Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit'' (Luke 23:46).
Since according to Mark Jesus made another statement after having said, ''My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me'' then that statement in Mark 15:34 and Matthew 27:46 was not the last thing that Jesus said.
Jesus also made other statements as He hung on the cross. Luke 23:43 records Jesus' statement to the thief that he would be with Him in paradise that day.
And John records Jesus' statements in which He said, ''I thirst'' John 19:28, and ''It has been accomplished'' John 19:30.
All of these recorded statements of Jesus as He hung on the cross are easily accounted for and need not be seen as contradictions. The reason why we have four Gospels with four different emphases is to provide a fuller portrait of Jesus.
The sequence then would be, ''My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me,'' - Jesus was being judged for our sins when He made that statement. Once the judgement was complete, Jesus then said ''It has been accomplished.'' And then His final statement - ''Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.
The other recorded statements were made a bit earlier. There's nothing convoluted here, nothing far fetched, just a simple fitting together of Jesus' last recorded statements on the cross.
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