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Again, and for the last time, there are not five 'qualifications' for being condemned. The details mentioned in Matthew 25:42-43 are indicative of unbelievers during the future Tribulation. The goats . . . the unbelievers are not condemned on the basis of those details which were paid for by Jesus on the cross, but because they are unbelievers.
Dear Mikey: there are exactly five qualifications for aionios kolasis according to the Master of Reconciliation! Exactly!
There are also 5 qualifications for aionios zoe according to the context of St. Matthew 25. Just list them at your convenience.
No, there are not, and I've already explained the passage to you. I'll not do so again.
Dear Mikey: you are an amazing explain(er) & I appreciate your patience.
Since this is the ONLY passage the Saviour of all mankind, in the whole Canon, speaks of aionios kolasis, you should be able to list the 5 qualifications. Nothing to lose Mike, just do it!
2 Maccabees seems to have been written in Greek as there is no evidence of an earlier Hebrew version. And writing in Greek, the author obviously knew Greek, and he used the word kolasis for the slaying of a murderer, as did the author of 3 Maccabees, and as apparently Josephus did in Antiquities book 2, section 2. I don't have the Greek version of Antiquities, only the English, so I have to take the word of Dr. Larry Perkins who wrote the following concerning Josephus.
For example, Josephus speaks about Herod’s experience of being on trial and in danger of being sentenced to death, but through the intervention of Hyrcanus, the high priest, he was saved “from that danger and punishment (kolaseōs),”6 certainly not a reference to a temporary kind of punishment.
The Greek of 2 and 3 Maccabees is available, and I did provide the Greek of 2 Maccabees.
Clearly the Greek word kolasis is not limited to corrective or remedial punishment.
Furthermore, the four books of Maccabees not being a part of the Hebrew Bible is completely irrelevant to the point which concerns the use of Greek grammar, ie., how the word kolasis was used at the time that Maccabees was written.
As for the Septuagint, that is a translation from the Hebrew into the Greek and was the Bible of the Hellenistic Jews and of the early church. The New Testament writers, when quoting the Old Testament mostly used the Septuagint version of the Old Testament.
And forget about examining your own heart to learn about the nature of God's love and judgments. Your emotions, your feelings, your reasoning, can easily lead you astray. God has revealed certain things about Himself in His creation, but He has revealed far more about Himself through the Scriptures.
Pagans once sacrificed their children to their god Moloch in the fires of Gehenna. And, the fundamentalists of Christianity have merely adopted it for themselves while giving their god the credit for this extremely wicked and cruel act. Much of what Christianism believes has been radically integrated into their belief-system but has no basis in reality.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
And the Holy Spirit did disclose to Jesus' apostles what He heard from the Father, and the apostles wrote about eternal punishment, as did Jesus Himself.
We both know that Jesus NEVER wrote anything. And nowhere in the Greek New Testament will you find the words eternal punishment.
Ignoring the fact that in 2 Maccabees 4:38 the word kolasis is used for punishment that is not remedial won't make it go away. The simple fact is that Kolasis is not restricted to the idea of remedial punishment.
The death penalty hasn’t really been an effective deterrent for murder, although it may be proportional to the offense in the sense of what you sow, you also reap. However, if you want to, you can build an altar for the Greek pagan gods that you are so hard pressed to worship. But it has nothing to do with any kind of truth or that of reality for that matter. You might also want to consider that revenge or vengeance merely desires to see the wrongdoer suffer. And none of what you quoted has anything to do with the ideology of eternal punishment, as it does not exist in the Greek New Testament (and contrary to your opinion), not even Jesus used those terms in conjunction with one another. But I have no doubt that your mind has been veiled and you will remain in the darkness of your theologies, until the day of judgment.
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And the Holy Spirit did disclose to Jesus' apostles what He heard from the Father, and the apostles wrote about eternal punishment, as did Jesus Himself.
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We both know that Jesus NEVER wrote anything.
Alright. I was careless when I wrote that. Jesus taught (not wrote) about eternal punishment, the New Testament writers wrote about it.
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And nowhere in the Greek New Testament will you find the words eternal punishment.
Since the Greek New Testament is written in Greek you quite obviously won't find the English words 'eternal punishment in it. But the English words 'eternal punishment' in English translations of Matthew 25:46 translate the Greek words αἰώνιον κόλασιν (or if following the word order in the Greek - κόλασιν αἰώνιον), just as the English words 'life eternal' translate the Greek words ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
And Greek scholars who translate the Greek into English couldn't care less about your objections.
The death penalty hasn’t really been an effective deterrent for murder, although it may be proportional to the offense in the sense of what you sow, you also reap.
Completely irrelevant to the point being made which is that the Greek word Kolasis is used with reference to putting someone to death in 2 and 3 Maccabees, and by Josephus in Antiquities.
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However, if you want to, you can build an altar for the Greek pagan gods that you are so hard pressed to worship. But it has nothing to do with any kind of truth or that of reality for that matter. You might also want to consider that revenge or vengeance merely desires to see the wrongdoer suffer. And none of what you quoted has anything to do with the ideology of eternal punishment, as it does not exist in the Greek New Testament (and contrary to your opinion), not even Jesus used those terms in conjunction with one another. But I have no doubt that your mind has been veiled and you will remain in the darkness of your theologies, until the day of judgment.
I just got though showing you in post #66 that Jesus did teach about eternal punishment.
I just got though showing you in post #66 that Jesus did teach about eternal punishment.
Dear Jerwade: How many times must Mikey show you stuff?
Ask him to demonstrate aionios kolasis to you from the Master of Reconciliation in the only ONLY passage regarding the same in Matt. 25. Just be prepared to wait and wait and wait. LOL
Alright. I was careless when I wrote that. Jesus taught (not wrote) about eternal punishment, the New Testament writers wrote about it.
Since the Greek New Testament is written in Greek you quite obviously won't find the English words 'eternal punishment in it. But the English words 'eternal punishment' in English translations of Matthew 25:46 translate the Greek words αἰώνιον κόλασιν (or if following the word order in the Greek - κόλασιν αἰώνιον), just as the English words 'life eternal' translate the Greek words ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
And Greek scholars who translate the Greek into English couldn't care less about your objections.
Matthew 25:46 "These will go away into aionion (duration or period of time) chastisement or correction, and the just or righteous into aionion (duration or period of time) life." Remember, this is not talking about anything eternal (aidios), however, it doesn't mean that life will end any more than the chastisement or correction will continue. Personally, I couldn't care less what your Greek scholars have to say. Aἰῶνα has nothing to do with eternity, nor does it carry the connotation of eternal. What you don't like is the idea of all humanity coming to the knowledge of the truth that hell and eternal damnation are false theologies, created by men to scare little children. Isn't it time you searched for the real truth? The only thing it does is invoke the idea of longevity or that which is over the horizon as does the Hebrew word Olam.
Something caught my attention, and I have to ask...
Radical forgiveness for all, except for us q----s? What exactly are "LGBTQ moralities and spiritualities"? Does this include LGBTQ Christians like myself?
Sadly, even the seemingly radically forgiving Pastor Mark probably actually believes you are an abomination to God and therefore unforgivable. It is inexplicable. The unconditional love and acceptance I experience from God are truly unconditional, so ignore those who do not have that love in their heart, geekigurl.
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