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Its quite telling that this thread has garnered so little interest.
Many people come here to fight more than learn and share perhaps.
Ive been called a heretic in one way or another on a daily basis since coming here.
It starts becoming an arena where the knights of the Orthodoxy want to joust and defeat everyone they disagree with.
Have you seen anyone's ideas change as a result of all their time in here?
You are seeking to foster a deeper consideration of the orthodoxy which is a mental exercise few find interesting or relevant to their daily lives. Those who would choose to take a philosophy course would probably be the most receptive to your efforts. I have struggled to present ideas in a palatable enough form for the essentially concrete thinkers who dominate the forum.
Trying to retrofit the Jesus story into the OT is perhaps Christianity's biggest mistake.
I agree completely. At best the OT prepared our species for the Gospel and predicted Jesus so that by His arrival the "fields were ripe for the harvest." But the concept of God the Father in the Ot and in the NT are diametrically opposed. The OT is based on fear and the NT is based on love. Fear casts out love and love casts out fear. They are not compatible despite the futile efforts of those compelled to merge them to translate fear as awe or reverence. There is no place for Fear in Christ's revelation of the True Nature of God.
You are seeking to foster a deeper consideration of the orthodoxy which is a mental exercise few find interesting or relevant to their daily lives. Those who would choose to take a philosophy course would probably be the most receptive to your efforts. I have struggled to present ideas in a palatable enough form for the essentially concrete thinkers who dominate the forum.
Which forum? The R/S and A/A forums?
I've often wondered why people say to keep politics and religion out of polite conversations. IMO, the reason why so many people are unable to discuss worldviews without attacking is that they are locked at/around stage 1 of self-actualization.
I agree completely. At best the OT prepared our species for the Gospel and predicted Jesus so that by His arrival the "fields were ripe for the harvest." But the concept of God the Father in the Ot and in the NT are diametrically opposed. The OT is based on fear and the NT is based on love. Fear casts out love and love casts out fear. They are not compatible despite the futile efforts of those compelled to merge them to translate fear as awe or reverence. There is no place for Fear in Christ's revelation of the True Nature of God.
Quote:
Trying to retrofit the Jesus story into the OT is perhaps Christianity's biggest mistake.
So between these two quotes I notice a familiar theme regarding a perceived incompatibility between the Old Testament and New. Seems like more and more folks these days are trying to figure out how to hold on to unified infallibility of the scriptures while not being trapped in unacceptable endorsements of atrocities and barbarism. Sounds as though for you all that dismissing the Old altogether works fine, but if Jesus is our model, how do we dismiss his clear unapologetic endorsement of the OT scriptures?
I struggle with this. In fact I wrote a controversial piece elsewhere advocating the extraction of Psalms 137 from the Canon due to the smashing babies text. That cannot be God voice and its too ugly to even allegorize.
I was amazed at the gymnastics people performed to treat it like another God breathed chapter when it was written 380 years after the known Psalmists died and the author is completely unknown. Its just in there because it was written by a Jew. Whoopty doo I say. It doesn't pass the test of Love or holiness by a long shot.
So between these two quotes I notice a familiar theme regarding a perceived incompatibility between the Old Testament and New. Seems like more and more folks these days are trying to figure out how to hold on to unified infallibility of the scriptures while not being trapped in unacceptable endorsements of atrocities and barbarism. Sounds as though for you all that dismissing the Old altogether works fine, but if Jesus is our model, how do we dismiss his clear unapologetic endorsement of the OT scriptures?
I struggle with this. In fact I wrote a controversial piece elsewhere advocating the extraction of Psalms 137 from the Canon due to the smashing babies text. That cannot be God voice and its too ugly to even allegorize.
I was amazed at the gymnastics people performed to treat it like another God breathed chapter when it was written 380 years after the known Psalmists died and the author is completely unknown. Its just in there because it was written by a Jew. Whoopty doo I say. It doesn't pass the test of Love or holiness by a long shot.
The stories in the OT scriptures or Hebrew Scriptures were prophetic, allegoric, metaphoric
We are not to put new “wine” into old “skins”
But what I also believe is the gospels, and letters to the churches (including Revelation) are also prophetic, metaphoric, allegoric
There are many “signs” which we are not to literalise
So between these two quotes I notice a familiar theme regarding a perceived incompatibility between the Old Testament and New. Seems like more and more folks these days are trying to figure out how to hold on to unified infallibility of the scriptures while not being trapped in unacceptable endorsements of atrocities and barbarism. Sounds as though for you all that dismissing the Old altogether works fine, but if Jesus is our model, how do we dismiss his clear unapologetic endorsement of the OT scriptures?
I struggle with this. In fact I wrote a controversial piece elsewhere advocating the extraction of Psalms 137 from the Canon due to the smashing babies text. That cannot be God voice and its too ugly to even allegorize.
I was amazed at the gymnastics people performed to treat it like another God breathed chapter when it was written 380 years after the known Psalmists died and the author is completely unknown. Its just in there because it was written by a Jew. Whoopty doo I say. It doesn't pass the test of Love or holiness by a long shot.
Jesus did not give us a clear, unapologetic endorsement of the OT scriptures. I read this a while back, and as usual, Richard Rohr gives us some food for thought. These three days' meditations are all rather short and manageable.
This last paragraph comes from the third above, but it really hits the core of the matter when it comes to Scripture:
If your understanding of Scripture leads you to experience any or several of the fruits of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23)—I think you can trust that this interpretation is from the Spirit, from the deeper stream of wisdom.
I agree completely. At best the OT prepared our species for the Gospel and predicted Jesus so that by His arrival the "fields were ripe for the harvest." But the concept of God the Father in the Ot and in the NT are diametrically opposed. The OT is based on fear and the NT is based on love. Fear casts out love and love casts out fear. They are not compatible despite the futile efforts of those compelled to merge them to translate fear as awe or reverence. There is no place for Fear in Christ's revelation of the True Nature of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Jesus did not give us a clear, unapologetic endorsement of the OT scriptures. I read this a while back, and as usual, Richard Rohr gives us some food for thought. These three days' meditations are all rather short and manageable.
This last paragraph comes from the third above, but it really hits the core of the matter when it comes to Scripture:
If your understanding of Scripture leads you to experience any or several of the fruits of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23)—I think you can trust that this interpretation is from the Spirit, from the deeper stream of wisdom.
Jesus said to them, “While I was still with you, I told you that everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” Then he helped them understand the Scriptures. He told them, The Scriptures say that the Messiah must suffer, then three days later he will rise from death. (Luke 24:44-46 CEV)
How is this not an endorsement of the Old Testament?
Jesus said to them, “While I was still with you, I told you that everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” Then he helped them understand the Scriptures. He told them, The Scriptures say that the Messiah must suffer, then three days later he will rise from death. (Luke 24:44-46 CEV)
How is this not an endorsement of the Old Testament?
It seems to me that in that quote he is referring to specifics contained within those writings.
You might want to read the thought in those links I sent. Even someone who calls himself "Pastor Mark" might learn something from a monk.
Jesus said to them, “While I was still with you, I told you that everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” Then he helped them understand the Scriptures. He told them, The Scriptures say that the Messiah must suffer, then three days later he will rise from death. (Luke 24:44-46 CEV)
How is this not an endorsement of the Old Testament?
It is an endorsement of the specific role of the OT to prepare our species for the coming of Jesus and to tell us about Him so we could identify Him and validate Him even centuries AFTER His death. That is a very specific purpose that does not encompass the scope you attribute to it.
If your understanding of Scripture leads you to experience any or several of the fruits of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23)—I think you can trust that this interpretation is from the Spirit, from the deeper stream of wisdom.
This is my test as well. If an interpretation/belief is functional to bring about spiritual maturity as defined or demonstrated by Jesus, then it is of God.
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