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Old 06-29-2019, 09:10 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
13,237 posts, read 12,289,997 times
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This thread is being started to have a place for discussing of all aspects of Universalism. At the time it is started, there are 6 threads open and active just on the first page of the Christianity forum. As those threads run their courses, they will be closed, as will older ones that get resurrected. It is the view of the moderators that having one thread to discuss a topic leaves more topics in view for those readers who only browse the first page of the forum (most readers).

These links will be removed in a few days.

Why Universalism is false (and Hell is real)

Universalism revealed in radical forgiveness

The inescapable answer to the hardest theological question

The age of accountability and Universalism

Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church

By request: Heresy vs Universalism as the undivided truth- A call for broader acceptance
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
19,343 posts, read 14,788,851 times
Reputation: 20037
Will they be removed or just closed, cuz there are some great posts, with

a lot of information. I'm learning a lot. Hate to lose them forever.

Thanks
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
67,459 posts, read 62,976,415 times
Reputation: 82607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Will they be removed or just closed, cuz there are some great posts, with

a lot of information. I'm learning a lot. Hate to lose them forever.

Thanks
They will just be closed as they run down so that we don't have so many threads with the same theme, as mensaguy said in the OP.

We rarely "remove" threads, although occasionally that is necessary.
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:24 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
26,109 posts, read 19,231,227 times
Reputation: 11447
Good idea. The forum shouldn't have to be flooded with threads on the topic by those who are trying to promote it.
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,058 posts, read 10,927,379 times
Reputation: 6207
It is hard deciphering. I think there are some truths to universalism that standard Evangelical Christianity has debunked. Just using the term universalism sets off alarm bells. For instance, I do believe that the atonement (at odds with 5 point Clavinism) was universal. The blood of Jesus atoned for every man's sin, every creature of God that ever lived, was alive at the time and would come.

But I can't help but see that there is some aspect of man's response to that work that makes it applicable to the individual. There is a place of judgment mentioned throughout the NT for those that do not believe the gospel. Another thought... Perhaps hell isn't eternal but a place of purging that gives some (maybe all) a chance to come to the place of purification that they did not receive when they rejected the message of the cross of Christ. Maybe hell isn't an eternal torment for the individual and the place itself is what is eternal.... in contrast to the sentence of the individual.

Still weighing some of these. Posted these thoughts recently but got no replies. Appears I walked into a drama with rolls already asigned and the dirt kept slinging over my head. Would be nice if there were a place that discusses some of this without the labels that automatically divides into camps and stones start slinging.
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 8,658,566 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
It is hard deciphering. I think there are some truths to universalism that standard Evangelical Christianity has debunked. Just using the term universalism sets off alarm bells. For instance, I do believe that the atonement (at odds with 5 point Clavinism) was universal. The blood of Jesus atoned for every man's sin, every creature of God that ever lived, was alive at the time and would come.

But I can't help but see that there is some aspect of man's response to that work that makes it applicable to the individual. There is a place of judgment mentioned throughout the NT for those that do not believe the gospel. Another thought... Perhaps hell isn't eternal but a place of purging that gives some (maybe all) a chance to come to the place of purification that they did not receive when they rejected the message of the cross of Christ. Maybe hell isn't an eternal torment for the individual and the place it itself is eternal.... not the sentence of the individual

Still weighing some of these. Posted these thoughts recently but got no replies. Appears I walked into a drama with rolls already asigned and the dirt kept slinging over my head. Would be nice if there were a place that discusses some of this without the labels that automatically divides into camps and stones start slinging.
You have hit on the major point used by those who detract from "universalism:" that it is just "warm fuzzies" and there are no consequences for selfish and even vicious behavior. The people who wish to use "He'll" as a scare tactic insist that there is no opportunity for change after this life and that we will be stuck in whatever category we land in forever. It is a seriously strange idea of justice excused by an even stranger idea about the nature of God that is so "other" that He is unapproachable, an idea inherited from Bronze Age perceptions that were specifically countered by the "Abba" relationship and concern of God for everyone taught by Jesus. I can only think it ids because those people are depending on control of others for their satisfaction rather than that concern for the well-Boeing of everyone in any situation that IS "agape" demonstrated by Christ.
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Arizona
25,142 posts, read 11,681,191 times
Reputation: 2039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
It is hard deciphering. I think there are some truths to universalism that standard Evangelical Christianity has debunked. Just using the term universalism sets off alarm bells. For instance, I do believe that the atonement (at odds with 5 point Clavinism) was universal. The blood of Jesus atoned for every man's sin, every creature of God that ever lived, was alive at the time and would come.

But I can't help but see that there is some aspect of man's response to that work that makes it applicable to the individual. There is a place of judgment mentioned throughout the NT for those that do not believe the gospel. Another thought... Perhaps hell isn't eternal but a place of purging that gives some (maybe all) a chance to come to the place of purification that they did not receive when they rejected the message of the cross of Christ. Maybe hell isn't an eternal torment for the individual and the place itself is what is eternal.... in contrast to the sentence of the individual.

Still weighing some of these. Posted these thoughts recently but got no replies. Appears I walked into a drama with rolls already asigned and the dirt kept slinging over my head. Would be nice if there were a place that discusses some of this without the labels that automatically divides into camps and stones start slinging.
The purpose of the Lake of Fire is to remove the dross (even death itself) and purify.
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:42 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
26,109 posts, read 19,231,227 times
Reputation: 11447
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
You have hit on the major point used by those who detract from "universalism:" that it is just "warm fuzzies" and there are no consequences for selfish and even vicious behavior. The people who wish to use "He'll" as a scare tactic insist that there is no opportunity for change after this life and that we will be stuck in whatever category we land in forever. It is a seriously strange idea of justice excused by an even stranger idea about the nature of God that is so "other" that He is unapproachable, an idea inherited from Bronze Age perceptions that were specifically countered by the "Abba" relationship and concern of God for everyone taught by Jesus. I can only think it ids because those people are depending on control of others for their satisfaction rather than that concern for the well-Boeing of everyone in any situation that IS "agape" demonstrated by Christ.
Attacking the character or motive of the person making the argument, instead of addressing the argument itself is called an Ad hominem and is fallacious.

Nor is offering false assurances that everyone will eventually be saved showing concern for the well-being of everyone. It trivializes the necessity of a personal faith response to the gospel message in order to receive eternal life and flat out rejects the Biblical teaching that not everyone will be saved

Jesus Himself stated that not everyone would enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21). He further said that anyone whose name is not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15), which He refers to as the eternal fire in Matthew 25:41 where those who do not have eternal life will go into eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46). Jesus also said that in the lake of fire, Satan and the beast and the false prophet would be tormented forever and ever (Revelation 20:10).
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Arizona
25,142 posts, read 11,681,191 times
Reputation: 2039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Attacking the character or motive of the person making the argument, instead of addressing the argument itself is called an Ad hominem and is fallacious.

Nor is offering false assurances that everyone will eventually be saved showing concern for the well-being of everyone. It trivializes the necessity of a personal faith response to the gospel message in order to receive eternal life and flat out rejects the Biblical teaching that not everyone will be saved

Jesus Himself stated that not everyone would enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21). He further said that anyone whose name is not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15), which He refers to as the eternal fire in Matthew 25:41 where those who do not have eternal life will go into eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46). Jesus also said that in the lake of fire, Satan and the beast and the false prophet would be tormented forever and ever (Revelation 20:10).
No such thing as eternal punishment ...but, not all will enter the kingdom of heaven in the here and now.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:11 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
26,109 posts, read 19,231,227 times
Reputation: 11447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
No such thing as eternal punishment ...but, not all will enter the kingdom of heaven in the here and now.
People who make mere assertions without even an attempt to back up their assertions don't deserve any attention. Such people simply waste everyone's time.
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