Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-09-2019, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,280,490 times
Reputation: 2295

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
In one sense, there are many antichrists. Anyone who denies that Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist according to 2 John 1:7.

But there will be an individual, used by Satan in the Tribulation, who Paul refers to as the man of lawlessness in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 who is THE antichrist, though Paul does not use that title for him. This man of lawlessness will take his seat in the temple and proclaim himself to be God as per 2 Thess. 2:4. This is also the same individual who Daniel 9:27 refers to as the prince who is to come. He is referred to as the beast in Revelation chapter 13. He will be the political leader of a confederation and will sign a peace treaty with Israel that he will break after 3 1/2 years (Dan. 9:27). The signing of that peace treaty with Israel will signal the beginning of the seven year Tribulational period.

Different titles; antichrist, man of lawlessness, the beast, the prince who is to come, all refer to the same individual.
Adversity is a principle that results in active resistance, opposition, or contentiousness within the human nature. And the Hebrew term for Satan merely describes an adversarial role (an adversary). Whereas, an accuser (slanderer, devil) is known for his unrighteous disposition. However, the principalities and powers of unholy (human) messengers, had inculcated the doctrines of demons, devils and Satan in the early views of men; falsely fostering and prospering them. Truth becomes known, when deception falls away (that of self-induced blindness). Christ denounced these doctrines and traditions of men within the Spirit of truth, as the ego driven desires are within men, resist them.

Those who live according to the human nature have their mind set on what their nature desires, but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their mind set on what the Spirit wants: Along came the tempter; the lust of the eyes (understanding of the mind), lust of the flesh (a heart of emotion) and the pride of life (the desires of the will). Thus, while the first Adam conceded to all that is in the world (that which extends deep down from the surface - yet, is visible through distinctive traits or characteristics common to all humanity); the second Adam stood his ground against the natural disposition of the soul and the temperament within that of other men.

There is not a single man of lawlessness or a beast to come. And, the Church has already fallen away from the truth with all its fables and mythological doctrines about demons, devils and Satan, or the so called Anti-Christ with its false seven year tribulation that is cut-short, including that of a pre-mid or post-millennial rapture. Religious beliefs merely separate and divide humanity for its own selfish reasoning.

Please, carry-on as I enjoy blowing the frost off another mug.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-09-2019, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Somerset, KY
421 posts, read 152,319 times
Reputation: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Different titles; antichrist, man of lawlessness, the beast, the prince who is to come, all refer to the same individual.
You know that I lean pretty heavily toward preterism and kingdom-as-mustard seed ideology, so, obviously, I'm going to beg to differ on this. I'm sure (at least, I hope) you've studied preterist theology, and you understand the basics of it, so I won't hash it all out here. Maybe another thread.

I do want to say this: I think we get a lot of messed up doctrine when we assume different places in the Bible are the same context and talking about the same events when the text doesn't indicate such. There is nothing in John's epistles to indicate that the antichrist is going to be a specific end of the world figure, and his letters are the only place that the word "antichrist" is mentioned.

And Daniel's "prince who is to come" is supposedly, (In the same verse, using the same Hebrew word) in the first sentence Jesus and the next sentence the "antichrist?" I know who confirmed the (new) covenant with many and put an end to the temple sacrifices at the end of the 70 sevens, and it wan't the "antichrist".

Anyway, like I said earlier, there is a rather large incentive to interpret scripture according to Hal Lindsey and John Darby in the form of millions of dollars in book sales and TV programs. I wonder how the modern church's theology would change if that incentive was gone.

Last edited by hball72; 07-09-2019 at 11:27 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,992 posts, read 10,340,773 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
When Jesus does come to rid the world of antichrist, false prophet and the dragon , ALL flesh will not survive , but Jesus will resurrect the body of Christ and rule the earth for thousand years ............... On the mean time when People get saved to Christ from repentance and faith then Jesus will give His Holy Spirit who can bring them today understanding and revelation of His Word
O Lord, how does anyone think they are more righteous than anyone else? It isn't about whether you sin or not, it is about whether you study or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 12:43 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,517,812 times
Reputation: 15331
Quote:
Originally Posted by hball72 View Post
You know that I lean pretty heavily toward preterism and kingdom-as-mustard seed ideology, so, obviously, I'm going to beg to differ on this. I'm sure (at least, I hope) you've studied preterist theology, and you understand the basics of it, so I won't hash it all out here. Maybe another thread.

I do want to say this: I think we get a lot of messed up doctrine when we assume different places in the Bible are the same context and talking about the same events when the text doesn't indicate such. There is nothing in John's epistles to indicate that the antichrist is going to be a specific end of the world figure, and his letters are the only place that the word "antichrist" is mentioned.

And Daniel's "prince who is to come" is supposedly, (In the same verse, using the same Hebrew word) in the first sentence Jesus and the next sentence the "antichrist?" I know who confirmed the (new) covenant with many and put an end to the temple sacrifices at the end of the 70 sevens, and it wan't the "antichrist".

Anyway, like I said earlier, there is a rather large incentive to interpret scripture according to Hal Lindsey and John Darby in the form of millions of dollars in book sales and TV programs. I wonder how the modern church's theology would change if that incentive was gone.
If its not a single person, what about all the warnings that people will not recognize the antichrist for who he truly is? its said majority of people will believe he is a great leader (even the returned Christ), he will be solving the worlds problems left and right, and achieving other feats that no other leader in history has made.


Its also said he will perform supernatural acts in front of large crowds of people, (probably reinforcing his claims that he is Jesus returned!?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Somerset, KY
421 posts, read 152,319 times
Reputation: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
If its not a single person, what about all the warnings that people will not recognize the antichrist for who he truly is? its said majority of people will believe he is a great leader (even the returned Christ), he will be solving the worlds problems left and right, and achieving other feats that no other leader in history has made.


Its also said he will perform supernatural acts in front of large crowds of people, (probably reinforcing his claims that he is Jesus returned!?
I would be happy to tell you my opinion on that, but you need to be more specific than "all the warnings" and "It's also said." Are you talking about the Bible? If so, where?

There are only 2 or 3 places in the Bible that the antichrist is mentioned. All in John's letters. None of them refer to the end of the age. Going by memory here, so forgive me if I get it a little off. It says that antichrist is a spirit that denies that Jesus has come in the flesh, that there are many antichrists, and that they are already in the world. And that's it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,992 posts, read 10,340,773 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by hball72 View Post
You know that I lean pretty heavily toward preterism and kingdom-as-mustard seed ideology, so, obviously, I'm going to beg to differ on this. I'm sure (at least, I hope) you've studied preterist theology, and you understand the basics of it, so I won't hash it all out here. Maybe another thread.

I do want to say this: I think we get a lot of messed up doctrine when we assume different places in the Bible are the same context and talking about the same events when the text doesn't indicate such. There is nothing in John's epistles to indicate that the antichrist is going to be a specific end of the world figure, and his letters are the only place that the word "antichrist" is mentioned.

And Daniel's "prince who is to come" is supposedly, (In the same verse, using the same Hebrew word) in the first sentence Jesus and the next sentence the "antichrist?" I know who confirmed the (new) covenant with many and put an end to the temple sacrifices at the end of the 70 sevens, and it wan't the "antichrist".

Anyway, like I said earlier, there is a rather large incentive to interpret scripture according to Hal Lindsey and John Darby in the form of millions of dollars in book sales and TV programs. I wonder how the modern church's theology would change if that incentive was gone.
You would be correct in leaning toward preterists because many things and prophesies have been fulfilled that most people do not see, like Ezekiel's last chapters, or the water that issued from the south side of the temple, already happened, and what does happen, it happens within you.


That 7 year covenant is what everyone is in right now, there is 42 months in Ephraim, and a remaining 3 and a half years in Judah. Revelation is STRICTLY a book about Ephraim and Judah, how Ephraim MUST become Judah, one witn Judah because there can no longer be two nations, and where you see 7000 men die in an Earthquake, this is a direct reference to Ephraim just as Revelation is chuckfull of references to Ephraim. Who is Ephraim and Judah?

Ephraim is the ten lost tribes often called,' Israel,' and this is how Gentiles are adopted into Israel from the promise to Ephraim in Hosea 2.

Those 7000 men who die, they are the same 7000 of Ephraim that Paul explained he was a member of. They are the same remnant that God informed Elijah about, and so when you see them die in that Earthquake detailed in the seals, in the trumpets and in the bowls, it is simply showing you a Gentile who went all the way in a symbolic death of being a Gentile, and in the moment that Earthquake happens, a Gentile has just become a Jew. Revelation is written for every single generation that all Gentiles may know what takes place when they are born again.

Jesus completed his 42 months of the spring, but he completes his own cycle in us. We walk 42 months, however long that takes, however long it takes a Gentile to die and become Israel.

There is a sure plan and instructions about that 7 years, everywhere you look. We are currently ina covenant and a marriage with the fallen spirit of Adam, and we have to realize that we need a new Adam, and this isn't just something one says.

Paul was angry and perplexed at his own disciples because he was teaching them all that time and they had yet to be born again. All those disciples KNEW that they were in a progressive walk to walk 42 months in the barley and the wheat, and at the end of the wheat harvest, a person comes to the end of his season, and the fallen spirit is taken from this person because he is the temple, and he has realized and seen the abomination of desolation within himself at the end of the wheat harvest, the end of the days of your ministry when you symbolically die at Rosh Hashanah to kick out the fallen spirit that Jesus can come and replace, to then finish the second season appointed for the coming of Christ in your own lifetime.

Those first converts knew they were in a serious race, a race in study, that a person is finally born again.

Born again does not happen over night, and Paul was so angry and perplexed at his churches because they were still his babies, still on milk and Christ had never yet been formed in them.

This 7 year plan is all over the bible, but if you don't know the two seasons and what they are appointed for, it will slip right by you...


That mustard seed is the fruit harvest of Sukkot, and Sukkot is about the trees. A person has lived a lifestyle of Passover and he sows his seed that the seed dies to bear fruit, he begins walking in the wheat harvest as the next step, and through years of study, that person has become something much greater than mere barley or wheat, he has become a celebrated tree of Sukkot.

YOU are the kingdom of heaven, and the kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and his in 3 measures of meal, in the barley, in the wheat, and in the fruit and nedicine of Tabernacles, this person has become tree, a priest by which many people come to find sustenance under his limbs, and they make their nests within the shade of his leaves, he is no longer just bread, he has become something much greater.

Those 3 measures are those first 3 parables, they are the 3 harvests that even mirror the 3 sections of heaven where the barley is of the court, the wheat of the Holy place, and the medicine and fruit of the season of Tabernacles.

Those 3 measures are body, soul, and spirit, and so if you were to explain the wheat harvest, you could not explain without also explaining the barley harvest and the fruit harvest because how would one explain the spirit without the body and soul, or how would one explain the soul without also explaining the body and spirit?

Those 4 parables, '' The sower, the wheat and tares, the mustard seed, and the leaven,'' they all go together as one.

You have to begin your 7 years in the barley harvest living a Passover lifestyle where you die daily in sewing your seed. You are studying day and night, dying to yourself to let messiah live.

Then you come to the wheat harvest through years of study, to then be sifted as wheat, and you are strongly pushing to the day that the fallen spirit is taken from you at the end of the wheat harvest where you vomit out the unclean spirits of the west, and this makes way for the coming of the kings of the east, you have become a new creature through marriage, through a pregnancy in being born again, and the reason why you must be born again, is that you were not born of the chosen.

You have two seasons with two promised rains, and your first season concerns the barley and the wheat, but these are just harvests of grain, they are not harvests of vines and trees that are celebrated and honored at the feast of Tabernacles.

After the end of your first season, as Galatians says,'' Kick out the bondswoman and her son.''

What people can't get in their head is that there is really a fallen spirit there, they know they have the spirit and tbey automatically assume it is the holy spirit, or Jesus, but this cannot be so.

Before you can get a new Adam, you must first make room, and one cannot make room and overcome a spirit if they don't realize and admit that they have a fallen spirit.

Jesus speaking of the abomination of desolation begins on TISHRI 1.

Matthew 24 is instructing a person exactly what they should do when they have completed their walk in the first season of Passover, and it begins showing a person what is going to happen on Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Shemini Atzeret.

All of Revelation is soley written to the Gentile that he may walk in all the prophesies of the book, HIMSELF.

The very first sentence states that everything in the book MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS, and every single thing you read in Revelation begins on Rosh Hashanah, goes through Yom Kippur in Great Detail, then it goes to the wine harvest of Sukkot harvesting the grapes, and then it ends on Shemini Atzeret.

Those 7 seals are 7 lenin wraps you wrap a dead man in a cocoon where he is slowly being resurrected as those seals come off one by one.

When the first seal comes off the BODY, you hear the first voice of the first trumpet in YOUR SOUL, and the first bowl is poured out IN YOUR SPIRIT.

Everything written is written for all the brides of Christ who are giving birth after 42 months as Revelation 12 details, and after they are born, they finish their remainkng 3 and a half years in the Sukkot season, the high holy days appointed for the second coming of Christ TO YOU, IN YOU.

That angel we see in Revelation 22, he also lives by the prophesies of the book, and this is to say without a doubt that he was in fact, born a Gentile, died, and now is a spirit, a teaching spirit.

Christians can't see all of this because they do not know their own visitations, those 7 days, those 7 years, those 7 feasts are teaching exactly what I am saying but if you do not know what is said and done on those days, especially the fall holy days, then Revelation is going to go right over your head.

Ya know why people suddenly say,'' Hide us from the face of he who sits upon the throne?''

It's because the lenin seal that is wrapped over the eyes, has just come off.

EVERY SINGLE PARABLE is explaining what YOU are. YOU are the kingdom of heaven, YOU are the temple, and the 7 feasts of the comings and goings of the temple are about YOU.


Hey, I met Hal Lynsey the day his life changed, and mine. We were both at a book reading that was extreemly interesting, certainly changed my life, and Hal's I am sure, I am very certain that he began studying the 7 feasts like he had never done before.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 07-09-2019 at 01:55 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,072 posts, read 26,274,284 times
Reputation: 16207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hball72 View Post
You know that I lean pretty heavily toward preterism
I'll try not to hold that against you.

Quote:
and kingdom-as-mustard seed ideology, so, obviously, I'm going to beg to differ on this. I'm sure (at least, I hope) you've studied preterist theology, and you understand the basics of it, so I won't hash it all out here. Maybe another thread.

I do want to say this: I think we get a lot of messed up doctrine when we assume different places in the Bible are the same context and talking about the same events when the text doesn't indicate such. There is nothing in John's epistles to indicate that the antichrist is going to be a specific end of the world figure, and his letters are the only place that the word "antichrist" is mentioned.

And Daniel's "prince who is to come" is supposedly, (In the same verse, using the same Hebrew word) in the first sentence Jesus and the next sentence the "antichrist?" I know who confirmed the (new) covenant with many and put an end to the temple sacrifices at the end of the 70 sevens, and it wan't the "antichrist".

Anyway, like I said earlier, there is a rather large incentive to interpret scripture according to Hal Lindsey and John Darby in the form of millions of dollars in book sales and TV programs. I wonder how the modern church's theology would change if that incentive was gone.
I am a futurist and have studied this well, and stand by what I've said. In 1 John 2:18 John mentions the antichrist coming (a particular individual) without going into any detail about him,and then mentions that many antichrists have come. Antichrist refers to one in opposition to Christ. In Daniel 9:26 the people of the prince who is to come is a reference to the Romans who would destroy the temple and Jerusalem in AD 70. The prince who is to come therefore would seem to have Roman origins. This prince is to make a firm covenant with the many for one week (of years; 7 years). But he is to break that covenant (peace treaty) after 3 1/2 years. Jesus didn't break any covenants.

Once the temple has been rebuilt, the Jews will resume the animal sacrifices. But the antichrist will put an end to those sacrifices halfway the Tribulation. (And by the way, after Jesus was crucified, the unbelieving Jews continued to make the animal sacrifices up to AD 70 when the temple was destroyed). This will be the middle of the Tribulation and fits with Revelation's statements in Revelation 12:6 and 13:5 where in 13:5 the beast is given authority to act for 42 months which is 3 1/2 years as is the one thousand two hundred and sixty days in 12:6 where the woman (Israel; the Jews) are to flee to the place which God has prepared for her. This covers the 2nd half of the Tribulation. It is at this time that the antichrist, the man of lawlessness, the prince who is to come, the beast will seat himself in the temple and declare himself to be God. That is the abomination of which Daniel spoke in 9:27 and of which Jesus warned in Matthew 24:15.

The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70 was a terrible thing, but it wasn't the seven year Tribulational period which is still ahead, and which at its end Jesus is to physically return to the earth and set up his kingdom. Nor did the Jews in AD 70 cry out for Jesus to come as Jesus said would be the case before he returns in Matthew 23:39.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Somerset, KY
421 posts, read 152,319 times
Reputation: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I'll try not to hold that against you.



I am a futurist and have studied this well, and stand by what I've said. In 1 John 2:18 John mentions the antichrist coming (a particular individual) without going into any detail about him,and then mentions that many antichrists have come. Antichrist refers to one in opposition to Christ. In Daniel 9:26 the people of the prince who is to come is a reference to the Romans who would destroy the temple and Jerusalem in AD 70. The prince who is to come therefore would seem to have Roman origins. This prince is to make a firm covenant with the many for one week (of years; 7 years). But he is to break that covenant (peace treaty) after 3 1/2 years. Jesus didn't break any covenants.
I'm going by memory here. I'm in the office, but, best I can recall:

It doesn't say anything about breaking a covenant. It says that He will confirm the covenant with many for one week, and in the middle of the week He will cause the temple worship to cease.

And I won't hold your futurism against you, because you're my brother.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 01:49 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,793 posts, read 3,626,306 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
O Lord, how does anyone think they are more righteous than anyone else? It isn't about whether you sin or not, it is about whether you study or not.
I agree partially, you need to be discerning about what you study and everyone is judged on their works which are judged in the light of the spirit

Love, mercy etc
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2019, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,992 posts, read 10,340,773 times
Reputation: 2318
I know that is a long post, but to explain how that 7 year covenant works, one would have to explain a great deal, much more than what is written above.

You would have to explain the comings and goings of the temple in detail, and you would have to show all the reference and meanings of who and what Ephraim is, and most people don't know.

For instance, another name for Ephraim is,'' The sands of the seas.''

Those ten heads, they are Ephraim's ten leaders, they are not some ten Europian nations, they are directly relation to the ten tribes, the kings of the west.

The ten who are the worst enemies of Judah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:40 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top