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Hi,
Yeah, I was saying that is what I gathered he was saying in the op.
So for JWs...the Father is the main and only focus, no? Jesus is someone...like a messenger?
Oh, the OP can clarify if he'd like. Or I could just look it up, if I cared enough.
I kinda don't care much about what others believe...to each his own...it can be interesting, tho....
and a bit of an education.
Yeah the OP can clarify. I'll be brief...
We (JWs) worship God, the Father, Jehovah
We put faith in Jesus. He died so we could have everlasting life and now serves as King of God's Kingdom. So, not just like a messenger.
Well good for you! Thanks for clarifying and I do understand that people are passionate about their views resulting in words that don't accurately reflect the thoughts that a poster is attempting to convey. Consider that "they" and "their powers" and "their mission" is plural. It's not directed at a very specific person. It's directed at an entire group.
Yes, it's directed at everyone who is not part of their group. It's the unkind, superior smugness that I find off-putting.
He continues to demonstrate that here, from Post No. 18:
Quote:
I did not say trinitarians are evil--Your false reasonings make it up. trinitarians are MISLEAD into serving a non existent God and breaking the true Gods #1 commandment daily. Jesus commishioned his followers to try and help them get out of it. They murdered Jesus, apostles and Christians because the world hates truth. It would be no different today, just worse. Jesus truths expose them as false.
This person has nothing to say except to tell everyone not part of the Watchtower how wrong and they are and how wonderful and RIGHT the JWs are.
I realize he's so caught up in it that he doesn't even get what I'm talking about or why he's so incredibly offensive. We have a regular poster on this forum who escaped the Watchtower (and is shunned by her own mother) and she has done a great deal to explain the thought processes of people like this, which are basically no thought processes at all, but only repetition of what has been embedded.
That doesn't mean I'm not going to call it out when I see it.
I worked with a woman who was a JW. We shared an office. She was a sweet person and especially kind to me the day one of my cats died and I was having trouble holding it together in the office. But we worked for a company owned by Hasidic Jews, and she would actually sit there and tell them that their Torah didn't say what it did, that it meant something else. It was this very strong "We are RIGHT and the rest of the world is WRONG" mindset that seems to be the overwhelming feature of the religion.
I also worked with another JW at another place where people of all sorts of religions, or none worked together, and she was also very nice, but she kept her beliefs to herself and didn't pull that "we are so superior" schtick. I think she probably did a lot to make people see a better side of JWs.
Yes, it's directed at everyone who is not part of their group. It's the unkind, superior smugness that I find off-putting.
He continues to demonstrate that here, from Post No. 18:
This person has nothing to say except to tell everyone not part of the Watchtower how wrong and they are and how wonderful and RIGHT the JWs are.
I realize he's so caught up in it that he doesn't even get what I'm talking about or why he's so incredibly offensive. We have a regular poster on this forum who escaped the Watchtower (and is shunned by her own mother) and she has done a great deal to explain the thought processes of people like this, which are basically no thought processes at all, but only repetition of what has been embedded.
That doesn't mean I'm not going to call it out when I see it.
I worked with a woman who was a JW. We shared an office. She was a sweet person and especially kind to me the day one of my cats died and I was having trouble holding it together in the office. But we worked for a company owned by Hasidic Jews, and she would actually sit there and tell them that their Torah didn't say what it did, that it meant something else. It was this very strong "We are RIGHT and the rest of the world is WRONG" mindset that seems to be the overwhelming feature of the religion.
I also worked with another JW at another place where people of all sorts of religions, or none worked together, and she was also very nice, but she kept her beliefs to herself and didn't pull that "we are so superior" schtick. I think she probably did a lot to make people see a better side of JWs.
And anyone who claims that they know 100% that they are right, and all others are wrong (as so many fundamentalist types do), need to take a good hard look at things. The fact of the matter is, none of us know for sure. The JW's harp on and on about how their way is the only correct way. So do fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, etc. They can't all be right, but they could all be wrong....
The arrogance of these people, and the superior smugness that you talk about, is just astounding. They'll say, "I know what God wants/needs, and anyone who disagrees is wrong!", yet there is no good reason to believe that they actually do know these things. Most of them are simply parroting back things they have been told, or what they wish to be true.
I have worked with JW's as well. They are VERY quick to tell you that you are wrong about any little thing, even if you prove you are right. They stick to their guns regardless of facts and truth, and that is the sign of someone who is too far gone to have a rational conversation with. If you aren't open to new things, facts, or truth, then you have lost the ability to think for yourself. It is actually quite sad.
And anyone who claims that they know 100% that they are right, and all others are wrong (as so many fundamentalist types do), need to take a good hard look at things. The fact of the matter is, none of us know for sure. The JW's harp on and on about how their way is the only correct way. So do fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, etc. They can't all be right, but they could all be wrong....
The arrogance of these people, and the superior smugness that you talk about, is just astounding. They'll say, "I know what God wants/needs, and anyone who disagrees is wrong!", yet there is no good reason to believe that they actually do know these things. Most of them are simply parroting back things they have been told, or what they wish to be true.
I have worked with JW's as well. They are VERY quick to tell you that you are wrong about any little thing, even if you prove you are right. They stick to their guns regardless of facts and truth, and that is the sign of someone who is too far gone to have a rational conversation with. If you aren't open to new things, facts, or truth, then you have lost the ability to think for yourself. It is actually quite sad.
It really is. One thing that made me very comfortable when I started attending an Episcopal Church is that they do not claim they are right or even that Christianity is the only valid spiritual path. As you said, none of us know anything that we can say we have all the answers, and frankly, I find that learning about and/or exploring other spiritual paths makes my world a lot richer.
Back to sharing the office with the JW who kept telling the Jews that what they thought their holy book said was WRONG, the other amusing thing was her refusal to say "God bless you" when someone sneezed. Pointed silence. I AM NOT GOING TO SAY "GOD BLESS YOU", DAMMIT.
Not that there's any logical reason to bless someone when they sneeze, of course, but I found it pretty funny that the JWs choose this particular social and cultural norm as a hill to die on to make some sort of point.
It really is. One thing that made me very comfortable when I started attending an Episcopal Church is that they do not claim they are right or even that Christianity is the only valid spiritual path. As you said, none of us know anything that we can say we have all the answers, and frankly, I find that learning about and/or exploring other spiritual paths makes my world a lot richer.
It sure does! That is part of the problem though, at least as I see it. So many people, here in the US, aren't exposed to anything but the religion they grew up in, or the predominant religion of their area, which is usually Christianity. They aren't interested in learning about other religions or paths, unless it is to try and use that against others.
I make absolutely zero knowledge claims. Sure, I will voice my opinion on how likely I believe something is, or my thoughts about certain beliefs, but I do not claim to be correct, or to know exactly how things work.
John 17:1-6,26--He 100% teaches--The one who sent him= Father( bible fact)John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD------- It is a 100% guarantee Jesus real teachers teach the same. The real reason why Jesus teaches all he has a God like we do, his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12, The real reason Jesus must be in subjection to his God and Father after handing the kingdom back to his Father( 1Corinthians 15:24-28)
It takes believing Jesus over errors--Few will. That must be the reason why Jesus teaches FEW will find the road( into Gods kingdom)
Paul teaching all who God is--1Corinthians 8:6--There is one God to all, the FATHER.
Jesus warned all you trinitarians. You have fell into satans trap( 34,000 trinity religions) John 15:20-21--He warned all on account of his name they wouldn't know the true God= Father.
It takes believing Jesus. Its a 100% guarantee every true follower does.
The REAL Jesus sends his followers to his Father to accomplish this daily-John 4:22-24--Every true followers heart instructs their minds to do that daily. How many days has your heart instructed correctly? Or cant you get by Jesus as he warned would occur at John 15:20-21?????????????
Crazy how you say he "warned all you trinitarians"....yet he himself claimed to be God.
And anyone who claims that they know 100% that they are right, and all others are wrong (as so many fundamentalist types do), need to take a good hard look at things. The fact of the matter is, none of us know for sure. The JW's harp on and on about how their way is the only correct way. So do fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, etc. They can't all be right, but they could all be wrong....
The arrogance of these people, and the superior smugness that you talk about, is just astounding. They'll say, "I know what God wants/needs, and anyone who disagrees is wrong!", yet there is no good reason to believe that they actually do know these things. Most of them are simply parroting back things they have been told, or what they wish to be true.
I have worked with JW's as well. They are VERY quick to tell you that you are wrong about any little thing, even if you prove you are right. They stick to their guns regardless of facts and truth, and that is the sign of someone who is too far gone to have a rational conversation with. If you aren't open to new things, facts, or truth, then you have lost the ability to think for yourself. It is actually quite sad.
JWs would be more than willing to use the Bible, any Bible, to explain our beliefs. We also use non JW sources and have rational discussions. It's not parroting back things that our organization puts out.
I've posted links to secular sources that indicate the Jews right through the time of Jesus and the early Christians had very different ideas of what in modern day Christianity is accepted as "true" or "correct" Are we perfect? No, no one is perfect. Do we understand everything? No,no one understands everything. Even the apostles needed correction.So how could we claim to know 100% of everything?
From what you post we would be wrong about the following:
-No hell
-No carnal warfare
-No getting involved in politics or socially divisive issues of the day
-No baptism at birth. Baptism is voluntary and only when an individual has the intellectual capacity to take
that important step
-The earth wont be destroyed. End times are really the forerunner of what comes after. The fulfillment of what God's purpose was for the earth. A peaceful planet for the humble and meek.
-That JWs will share the earth with non JWs during the resurrection.
How many people have died in carnal warfare at the hands of Witnesses? How many in the gay and lesbian community have had Witnesses fund or support legal measures to restrict their lifestyle? How many nativity scenes, monuments containing religious symbols, movements/lawsuits to remove "one nation under God," replacing Merry Christmas with something not so Christmas-y have Witnesses been involved in? None, zero.
As far as "not open to new things, facts or truth"...maybe this can help people understand what really thinking for oneself involves:
" It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."-Aristotle
Because one rejects an idea or belief even if that idea is popular or becomes mainstream does not mean one has "lost the ability to think" or has not thought about it. Today's "new things, facts, or truth" could be tomorrows mistakes.
It really is. One thing that made me very comfortable when I started attending an Episcopal Church is that they do not claim they are right or even that Christianity is the only valid spiritual path. As you said, none of us know anything that we can say we have all the answers, and frankly, I find that learning about and/or exploring other spiritual paths makes my world a lot richer.
Back to sharing the office with the JW who kept telling the Jews that what they thought their holy book said was WRONG, the other amusing thing was her refusal to say "God bless you" when someone sneezed. Pointed silence. I AM NOT GOING TO SAY "GOD BLESS YOU", DAMMIT.
Not that there's any logical reason to bless someone when they sneeze, of course, but I found it pretty funny that the JWs choose this particular social and cultural norm as a hill to die on to make some sort of point.
That's great you found something that made you very comfortable. Christianity can be very uncomfortable. At times it means taking a stand against hate or putting up with bigotry and misinformation while remaining peaceful.
This may be of benefit for people that are genuinely curious about Witnesses from a non JW viewpoint.It's from PBS so its not a religiously affiliated source. Don't be afraid Mightyqueen801 to peek. Afterall, I agree with you. I find learning about other peoples viewpoints can prove very interesting. Perhaps you will step outside of your comfort zone and see how differently JWs are viewed by others. I know I have.Participating in these forums has been quite an eye opener.
"While protecting their own rights, Jehovah’s Witnesses have won a record number of U.S. Supreme Court cases, expanding freedoms for all Americans. In Nazi Germany, they chose non-violence, landing them in the concentration camps rather than fighting for Hitler. They refuse blood transfusions on religious grounds, yet support the science of bloodless medicine. They are moral conservatives who stay out of politics. They attempt to persuade, but not impose their beliefs." -https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/knocking/film.html
That's great you found something that made you very comfortable. Christianity can be very uncomfortable. At times it means taking a stand against hate or putting up with bigotry and misinformation while remaining peaceful.
This may be of benefit for people that are genuinely curious about Witnesses from a non JW viewpoint.It's from PBS so its not a religiously affiliated source. Don't be afraid Mightyqueen801 to peek. Afterall, I agree with you. I find learning about other peoples viewpoints can prove very interesting. Perhaps you will step outside of your comfort zone and see how differently JWs are viewed by others. I know I have.Participating in these forums has been quite an eye opener.
"While protecting their own rights, Jehovah’s Witnesses have won a record number of U.S. Supreme Court cases, expanding freedoms for all Americans. In Nazi Germany, they chose non-violence, landing them in the concentration camps rather than fighting for Hitler. They refuse blood transfusions on religious grounds, yet support the science of bloodless medicine. They are moral conservatives who stay out of politics. They attempt to persuade, but not impose their beliefs." -https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/knocking/film.html
What I bolded is exactly what made me "comfortable" about the Episcopal Church.
Trust me, sweetheart, there's not much I'm afraid of at this stage in life, and I don't have a "comfort zone". Your attempt at condescension is amusing, but it does make me take you a bit less seriously.
I am glad to hear JWs chose non-violence and stay out of politics. I agree wholeheartedly with those choices.
However, I beg to differ on your last sentence. Some of your fellow JWs are very nasty on this forum, posting repeatedly that they are the only ones saved, that their religion is the only right one, and that everyone else is pretty much nothing but dirt. It may be that there's a side of them they can't express in real life but the anonymity of the Internet makes them feel free to do so.
In addition, we have at least two posters on this forum who have broken free of the chains of the Watchtower, and they have some stories that can curl one's hair. We cannot just disregard what they have to say.
ETA: I clicked on your link and read the "Myth and Reality" section. Nothing there that I didn't already know. I am not sure what you thought I would see that was different "or would be afraid to peek" at.
JWs would be more than willing to use the Bible, any Bible, to explain our beliefs. We also use non JW sources and have rational discussions. It's not parroting back things that our organization puts out.
I've posted links to secular sources that indicate the Jews right through the time of Jesus and the early Christians had very different ideas of what in modern day Christianity is accepted as "true" or "correct" Are we perfect? No, no one is perfect. Do we understand everything? No,no one understands everything. Even the apostles needed correction.So how could we claim to know 100% of everything?
From what you post we would be wrong about the following:
-No hell
-No carnal warfare
-No getting involved in politics or socially divisive issues of the day
-No baptism at birth. Baptism is voluntary and only when an individual has the intellectual capacity to take
that important step
-The earth wont be destroyed. End times are really the forerunner of what comes after. The fulfillment of what God's purpose was for the earth. A peaceful planet for the humble and meek.
-That JWs will share the earth with non JWs during the resurrection.
How many people have died in carnal warfare at the hands of Witnesses? How many in the gay and lesbian community have had Witnesses fund or support legal measures to restrict their lifestyle? How many nativity scenes, monuments containing religious symbols, movements/lawsuits to remove "one nation under God," replacing Merry Christmas with something not so Christmas-y have Witnesses been involved in? None, zero.
As far as "not open to new things, facts or truth"...maybe this can help people understand what really thinking for oneself involves:
" It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."-Aristotle
Because one rejects an idea or belief even if that idea is popular or becomes mainstream does not mean one has "lost the ability to think" or has not thought about it. Today's "new things, facts, or truth" could be tomorrows mistakes.
My phone is being annoying, and not letting me copy/paste at the moment, so I have broken my response down based off of what I have bolded...
First bolded- Anyone outside of a JW would likely agree with me on the parroting thing. It is VERY apparent that the large majority of JW's do nothing more than parrot back what they have been told. I am not saying every single one does so, but the VAST majority certainly does. There is a reason that JW's are some of the least educated, and have some of the lowest IQ's out there. All the better to keep them from questioning. Are you denying this FACT?
Second bolded- I think you misunderstand, hd. When I say you can't all be right, but you could all be wrong, I don't mean about your beliefs on hell or the afterlife or something like that. I mean your specific beliefs about God/gods themselves. The individual ideas inside of that could be a mix of right and wrong. The thing is, the odds of us puny humans even being able to comprehend a "God" is pretty close to nil. The ideas about God that we have come from human imagination, plain and simple. Could someone be right? Sure. It is more likely we are all wrong.
Third bolded- Anyone who speaks and acts like the majority of JW's, clearly have lost that ability. You are free to disagree all you want, but that doesn't change anything. The majority of JW's are merely low IQ parrots who question nothing they are told by their precious Watchtower and child abusing elders.
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