Are there any Calvinists here? (crucified, sinners, Kingdom, Isaiah)
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A person can believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God and experience God in a deep, rich and wide way. I see it all the time.
Oh, I think that is possible, of course. A person like that would have to be one who is opening their heart to more than the limitations of what is contained in the Bible, though. The test would be if they could have a conversation about Christianity with another person in their own words and thoughts without responding in verses and actually listen to what someone else has to say, consider what they said, and respond.
That's what I don't find here. It's a shame. I don't think I've ever seen a fundamentalist (meaning one who believes in the Bible being the inerrant actual "words of God") say why they believe the way they do WITHOUT quoting the Bible. I doubt I would ever agree, because I am way past the point of believing in inerrancy, but I would at least consider their experience and their point of view as maybe being valid to them. Of course, as soon as somebody trots out 2 Tim 3:16, it's obvious there will be no intelligent conversation on the subject. The verse doesn't make a lick of sense the way it's used, and it's effectively quoted to shut down the conversation.
But, I think it's ok if they quote the Bible all the time, cuz the way I see it they could
be quoting something else..yikes ...or robbing their neighbor...it keeps 'em outta trouble.
Oh, I think that is possible, of course. A person like that would have to be one who is opening their heart to more than the limitations of what is contained in the Bible, though. The test would be if they could have a conversation about Christianity with another person in their own words and thoughts without responding in verses and actually listen to what someone else has to say, consider what they said, and respond.
That's what I don't find here. It's a shame. I don't think I've ever seen a fundamentalist (meaning one who believes in the Bible being the inerrant actual "words of God") say why they believe the way they do WITHOUT quoting the Bible. I doubt I would ever agree, because I am way past the point of believing in inerrancy, but I would at least consider their experience and their point of view as maybe being valid to them. Of course, as soon as somebody trots out 2 Tim 3:16, it's obvious there will be no intelligent conversation on the subject. The verse doesn't make a lick of sense the way it's used, and it's effectively quoted to shut down the conversation.
Bottom line is we need something to stand on. The Bible is the written account of the actions of God, and is the inspired words of God. The alternative is to believe what 150 different people view as truth based on their feelings. This forum demonstrates what happens when we do that.
Oh, I think that is possible, of course. A person like that would have to be one who is opening their heart to more than the limitations of what is contained in the Bible, though. The test would be if they could have a conversation about Christianity with another person in their own words and thoughts without responding in verses and actually listen to what someone else has to say, consider what they said, and respond.
That's what I don't find here. It's a shame. I don't think I've ever seen a fundamentalist (meaning one who believes in the Bible being the inerrant actual "words of God") say why they believe the way they do WITHOUT quoting the Bible. I doubt I would ever agree, because I am way past the point of believing in inerrancy, but I would at least consider their experience and their point of view as maybe being valid to them. Of course, as soon as somebody trots out 2 Tim 3:16, it's obvious there will be no intelligent conversation on the subject. The verse doesn't make a lick of sense the way it's used, and it's effectively quoted to shut down the conversation.
It’s more than possible-it’s true. I’ve spoken many times here about the good work my church does (and other churches just like us). Those people doing that work, they all believe in the inerrancy of scripture.
Romans 15:4 “For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.”
But, I think it's ok if they quote the Bible all the time, cuz the way I see it they could
be quoting something else..yikes ...or robbing their neighbor...it keeps 'em outta trouble.
It’s more than possible-it’s true. I’ve spoken many times here about the good work my church does (and other churches just like us). Those people doing that work, they all believe in the inerrancy of scripture.
Romans 15:4 “For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.”
Yeah, I've never been one to say that the fundamentalist Christians don't do any good. They most certainly do, and you've spoken about your church's many good works before. Most Christian churches run soup kitchens and pantries or support the ones that do, no matter what denomination. (So do other religions, but this is the Christianity forum.)
I used to do some tours for WTC Tribute, which was/is an organization that that had a Tribute Center near the WTC and gave tours around the area of the site during the rebuilding era. (It still exists, but it's kind of superfluous now that the Memorial Museum is completed and open and will probably close up shop one of these days). All of the docents/tour guides are people directly affected by 9/11--survivors, family members, first responders, residents of the area, etc. We told our own first-person story of that day to our group at the end of the tour. There were always two docents on the tour, a lead and a support
On one of the tours on which I was a support, the lead was a woman, a resident of Battery Park City, a large upscale condo development on the Hudson near the WTC. Her story was that she could not return to her home for weeks after the attacks until it was deemed safe enough for her to do so. When she did, she was devastated. She'd had windows open, and the entire contents of her apartment were covered in grey dust and debris.
But...a group of Southern Baptists showed up at her apartment and that of the others in her building, armed with masks and cleaning equipment and supplies. She was Jewish, so naturally she did not have a high opinion of the SBC after their grand announcement in the Nineties that they were focusing on converting Jews, which Jews only saw as yet another attempt at their annihilation. These people had traveled up from somewhere in the south and came in and cleaned her entire home for her and wouldn't take any money, nor did they try to preach to or convert her to their religion. She was shocked and yet touched by their kindness and compassion and what they had done for her, and that was her story.
It's one of the many 9/11 stories I've tucked away in my brain, as well.
Bottom line is we need something to stand on. The Bible is the written account of the actions of God, and is the inspired words of God. The alternative is to believe what 150 different people view as truth based on their feelings. This forum demonstrates what happens when we do that.
I can pretty much disagree with everything you said here, but your continued use of the smarmy and dismissive remark that the rest of Christianity views everything "based on our feelings" says loud and clear that you have no interest in discussion of any point of view except your own.
But we've known that for a long, long time, haven't we.
Well, it's true...you guys get a bad rap. If put into perspective...you guys are trying to be good people, frustrating, sure.
Tho we may disagree on many things...
you're not criminals...and yet you are treated that way here.
I have sent pms to each person that is way too intense with Fundies...and it won't be changing.
I am against it.
They have their reasons, so I can't change anything.
A little levity that at least you're not crawling into your neighbor's window could hit the mark...so as,
not to be so mean to you all...just because 'they' are frustrated because of your beliefs...which many,
me, too, do not believe in.
But, oh well. Your propagation of a fear in hell keeps many people from robbing ME.
Glass is half full for me.
You have good hearts....I'm not sure that is remembered enough...esp when you
don't have your armor on and sometimes stoop to being snarky, also.
But, I think it's ok if they quote the Bible all the time, cuz the way I see it they could
be quoting something else..yikes ...or robbing their neighbor...it keeps 'em outta trouble.
Yes it does. It also keeps them alienated in their minds from the Spirit too.
Yes it does. It also keeps them alienated in their minds from the Spirit too.
says the guy that just makes up his theology as he goes along.
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MQ, Well said.
