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The Bible is both the word of God and at the same time, a very human book. To understand the Bible you have to understand the time and culture in which it was written. The problem is not with the Bible but with those who attempt to impose a 21st century cultural world view upon it.
Then, you should be able to understand that not everything is literal, nor was it meant to be taken that way. Yet, Christianism has adopted the ideologies from various mythologies and other cultures or religions and have built its doctrines and teachings on things that do not exist in reality. Isn't it about time you stepped into the twenty-first century. And let go of fables - demons, devils and Satan who is the ruler of an underworld of pain and suffering?
''When something is obviously literal in meaning, to then interpret it allegorically or symbolically can only result in a wrong interpretation, just as taking something that is obviously allegorical or otherwise symbolic and attempting to interpret it literally can only provide an invalid interpretation.''
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Yet, Christianism has adopted the ideologies from various mythologies and other cultures or religions and have built its doctrines and teachings on things that do not exist in reality. Isn't it about time you stepped into the twenty-first century. And let go of fables - demons, devils and Satan who is the ruler of an underworld of pain and suffering?
Again, as always, you make unsupported statements. Provide the evidence for your assertion that demons, and Satan don't exist. You can't.
Mike (and Jimmie and BF and whoever) What is in your file for the "born again experience"? I refer to it as the "firmware upgrade". Do you have a file for that? Do you really not understand what Miss H is asking?
Mike doesn't speak for the New Testament, he is always speaking about Judaism and the idioms of hell, but he doesn't know Judaism or what the idioms mean.
How is somebody always speaking of what happens on Jewish holy days when they don't know anything about Jewish holy days or the meaning of Jewish idioms?
It's just bizarre, those first Christians were converts to Judaism, and you just can't fit modern Christianity into Judaism.
Don't presume to tell me or anyone else what I do and don't speak for.
And no, the first Christians were not converts to Judaism. It was the other way around. Jews were the first Christians. They became followers of 'the Way' and were later called Christians. Judaism doesn't accept Jesus as the Messiah. Christianity does.
And 'hell'? Try reading the book of 1 Enoch which is 2nd temple period Jewish literature. The concept of the lake of fire in the New Testament comes right out of that Jewish writing.
And by the way, are you not aware that some within Judaism believe that the utterly wicked cease to exist?
Gan Eden and Gehinnom
Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse. [Bolding mine]
Mike (and Jimmie and BF and whoever) What is in your file for the "born again experience"? I refer to it as the "firmware upgrade". Do you have a file for that? Do you really not understand what Miss H is asking?
I have no idea what you're asking here by what is in my file for the born again experience?
As for my reply to Miss Hepburn, I stated what is necessary to enter into a direct relationship with God the Father.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-24-2019 at 06:25 PM..
This might interest some on this thread. It's a thought experiment about there being nonphysical properties that can only be discovered through conscious experience. You can know all the facts about something and be unable to grasp parts of it. Like with the color red. I have seen red. I don't know if I experience red the same way anyone else does but I know others have because we will point to the same thing and call it red. If someone started going on about rods and cones in the eyes and light refraction and couldn't point to red I would assume they couldn't see red. It's like that with all the laws, rules and scriptures.
You want to know my 'born again' experience. Is that it? I was told that I was five years old when I received Jesus as Savior. I have no memory of it or of any experience. But at some point I did believe and continue to do so.
Experiences are irrelevant. A person can get skunk drunk and receive Jesus as Savior, and his only experience is going to be one hell of a hangover the next morning. What matters is that when a person receives Jesus as Savior he enters into an eternal relationship with God. His 'experience' after that Should be to start growing spiritually.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-24-2019 at 06:31 PM..
I wasn't really looking to become "religious," as it were; I was irreligious and basically agnostic. But... difficult as it may be to explain, God just changed me. This all happened at the end of 2018/early 2019. But besides just a change of heart, there have been certain tangible occurrences in my recent life that I am quite confident were not by chance, which I believe God has used to minister to me and show me His love. It's personal, complicated, and I'm not inclined to divulge additional details.
In any event, I do have a personal relationship with the Lord, and that love relationship has been so foundational for me. The great thing is that God has all the time in the world for His people. Nothing is too small or trivial for His attention. To paraphrase a local pastor I've enjoyed listening to, "Do you remember when you first got saved? It's a relationship, not a religion. I used to be like, Lord, should I get a steak sandwich or a hoagie?"
Yeah, I can totally relate to that!
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