Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Don't presume to tell me or anyone else what I do and don't speak for.
And no, the first Christians were not converts to Judaism. It was the other way around. Jews were the first Christians. They became followers of 'the Way' and were later called Christians. Judaism doesn't accept Jesus as the Messiah. Christianity does.
And 'hell'? Try reading the book of 1 Enoch which is 2nd temple period Jewish literature. The concept of the lake of fire in the New Testament comes right out of that Jewish writing.
And by the way, are you not aware that some within Judaism believe that the utterly wicked cease to exist?
Gan Eden and Gehinnom
Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.
Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse. [Bolding mine]
I don't presume anything Mike, Jesus loved and practiced Judaism, he came as a hero foretold to come in Judaism. You don't practice Judaism, and you don't know it.
The first Gentile converts were converts to Judaism, and everything said in the New Testament revolves around 7 missions of Judaism, everything said and shown concerns the 7 feasts in Judaism that come with a myriad of idioms, and traditions and rituals only known and understood through the knowledge of what is said during the 7 feasts that we are always claiming of Jesus. That Jesus was the Passover, unleavened bread, firstfruits, pentecost, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Shemini Atzeret.
Every single day you come in here speaking about Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot, but you never know you are talkjng about Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot.
The New Testament is always referencing holy days, traditions, rituals and idioms only known to people who love Judaism.
Ya know how you find out all the truth of Jesus in the feast of Tabernacles?
You speak of Rosh Hashanah and Tabernacles every single day, but you never know it, and what is said and done on Rosh Hashanah and Tabernacles so we can go and learn all the idioms, all the sayings and everything done?
Well, you would have to look to the Talmud for that information, again, it's Judaism, and you are always speaking of modern Christianity which didn't even exist in Paul's day, much less in Jesus day.
When are you going to admit that the first Christianity was a sect of Judaism?
I don't presume anything Mike, Jesus loved and practiced Judaism, he came as a hero foretold to come in Judaism. You don't practice Judaism, and you don't know it.
The first Gentile converts were converts to Judaism, and everything said in the New Testament revolves around 7 missions of Judaism, everything said and shown concerns the 7 feasts in Judaism that come with a myriad of idioms, and traditions and rituals only known and understood through the knowledge of what is said during the 7 feasts that we are always claiming of Jesus. That Jesus was the Passover, unleavened bread, firstfruits, pentecost, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Shemini Atzeret.
Every single day you come in here speaking about Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot, but you never know you are talkjng about Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot.
The New Testament is always referencing holy days, traditions, rituals and idioms only known to people who love Judaism.
Ya know how you find out all the truth of Jesus in the feast of Tabernacles?
You speak of Rosh Hashanah and Tabernacles every single day, but you never know it, and what is said and done on Rosh Hashanah and Tabernacles so we can go and learn all the idioms, all the sayings and everything done?
Well, you would have to look to the Talmud for that information, again, it's Judaism, and you are always speakkng of modern Christianity which didn't even exist in Paul's day, much less in Jesus day.
When are you going to admit that the first Christianity was a sect of Judaism?
Again, Gentile Christians did not convert to Judaism. Well, some did under the influence of the Judaizers who tried to make Gentiles believe that they had to observe the customs of Moses in order to be saved, but the Council at Jerusalem said otherwise (Acts chapter 15). Jews became Christians when they received Jesus as Savior. And no, the New Testament does not revolve around Judaism. The Church-age in which we live pertains to the church, not to Israel, and not to Judaism.
The feast days of Judaism have nothing to do with the church. Period.
When are YOU going to admit that Judaism doesn't accept Jesus as the Messiah?
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-24-2019 at 06:47 PM..
Mike (and Jimmie and BF and whoever) What is in your file for the "born again experience"? I refer to it as the "firmware upgrade". Do you have a file for that? Do you really not understand what Miss H is asking?
I have no idea what you’re asking here. However, a Christian can and should have a deep relationship with God, through Christ. Belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God does not inhibit that-it enhances it.
I wasn't really looking to become "religious," as it were; I was irreligious and basically agnostic. But... difficult as it may be to explain, God just changed me. This all happened at the end of 2018/early 2019. But besides just a change of heart, there have been certain tangible occurrences in my recent life that I am quite confident were not by chance, which I believe God has used to minister to me and show me His love. It's personal, complicated, and I'm not inclined to divulge additional details.
In any event, I do have a personal relationship with the Lord, and that love relationship has been so foundational for me. The great thing is that God has all the time in the world for His people. Nothing is too small or trivial for His attention. To paraphrase a local pastor I've enjoyed listening to, "Do you remember when you first got saved? It's a relationship, not a religion. I used to be like, Lord, should I get a steak sandwich or a hoagie?"
Yeah, I can totally relate to that!
Serious question, did you at any time think the feeling that “god just changed me†moment may have been a medical moment for you?
Before this happened, you said you weren’t “looking to become “religiousâ€â€, did you have a desire to believe?
Again, Gentile Christians did not convert to Judaism. Well, some did under the influence of the Judaizers who tried to make Gentiles believe that they had to observe the customs of Moses in order to be saved, but the Council at Jerusalem said otherwise (Acts chapter 15). Jews became Christians when they received Jesus as Savior. And no, the New Testament does not revolve around Judaism. The Church-age in which we live pertains to the church, not to Israel, and not to Judaism.
The feast days of Judaism have nothing to do with the church. Period.
When are YOU going to admit that Judaism doesn't accept Jesus as the Messiah?
Jews should use you as a poster boy for proof that Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah, all you do is to prove that Jesus deserved death.
You literally validate his being killed for being Anti Christ, the lawless one.
I have no idea what you’re asking here. However, a Christian can and should have a deep relationship with God, through Christ. Belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God does not inhibit that-it enhances it.
To yourself yes of course, but that goes for anything anyone believes with the same kind of intensity.
I have no idea what you’re asking here. However, a Christian can and should have a deep relationship with God, through Christ. Belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God does not inhibit that-it enhances it.
Only for double-minded people who ignore the inconsistent and contradictory principles and values in the Bible. Christ has a consistent set of principles and values and exhibited them unambiguously. Pretending that some of the most heinous and barbaric OT nonsense can be merged with and be consistent with the love Jesus revealed and demonstrated is preposterous.
Jews should use you as a poster boy for proof that Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah, all you do is to prove that Jesus deserved death.
You literally validate his being killed for being Anti Christ, the lawless one.
Again, when are you going to admit that Judaism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah? For a Gentile to convert to Judaism he'd have to deny that Jesus is the Messiah. Jews who come to believe in Jesus (Messianic Jews) are not considered by Jews to be Jewish.
Again, when are you going to admit that Judaism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah? For a Gentile to convert to Judaism he'd have to deny that Jesus is the Messiah. Jews who come to believe in Jesus are not accepted by those within Judaism.
Isaiah
Thou hast multiplied the nation,*and*not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest,*and*as*men*rejoice when they divide the spoil.
Mike, the whole idea is Gentiles being added to the nation of Jews because they accept the God of Israel and the covenant Messiah only brings for Ephraim and Judah.
Jesus came to add a Gentile to his own people in his own religion.
Those first Gentiles converted to the same religion as Jews, and they effectively came under the covenant to the lost ten tribes of Ephraim.
ONLY Ephraim and Judah have a covenant and they are the same people in the same religion.
You can pretend everything else, but the covenant says what it says, and it's mission is extreemly clear in that Gentiles would come and be added to the nation because they converted to the religion of the Jews, the religion Jesus walked in.
If Jesus did not love and practice Judaism, there is simply no reason to even insinuate him being a Messiah, the Messiah is a savior and a warrior for the Jewish people.
All you do is to try and prove that Jesus could not be the Messiah, for a fact, Jews should hold you up as proof.
You make up what you want to make up, but the covenant is for all to see, and it's results are plain for all to see, we see the poeple in the covenant in Ezekiel 37, and they all love Judaism, they are being led by a Messiah prscticing Judaism.
Again, when are you going to admit that Judaism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah? For a Gentile to convert to Judaism he'd have to deny that Jesus is the Messiah. Jews who come to believe in Jesus (Messianic Jews) are not considered by Jews to be Jewish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Isaiah
Thou hast multiplied the nation,*and*not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest,*and*as*men*rejoice when they divide the spoil.
Mike, the whole idea is Gentiles being added to the nation of Jews because they accept the God of Israel and the covenant Messiah only brings for Ephraim and Judah.
Jesus came to add a Gentile to his own people in his own religion.
Those first Gentiles converted to the same religion as Jews, and they effectively came under the covenant to the lost ten tribes of Ephraim.
ONLY Ephraim and Judah have a covenant and they are the same people in the same religion.
You can pretend everything else, but the covenant says what it says, and it's mission is extreemly clear in that Gentiles would come and be added to the nation because they converted to the religion of the Jews, the religion Jesus walked in.
If Jesus did not love and practice Judaism, there is simply no reason to even insinuate him being a Messiah, the Messiah is a savior and a warrior for the Jewish people.
All you do is to try and prove that Jesus could not be the Messiah, for a fact, Jews should hold you up as proof.
You make up what you want to make up, but the covenant is for all to see, and it's results are plain for all to see, we see the poeple in the covenant in Ezekiel 37, and they all love Judaism, they are being led by a Messiah prscticing Judaism.
Why won't you answer my question?
And no, the whole idea is not Gentiles being added to the nation of Jews. The idea is that both Jews and Gentiles are to be added to the body of Christ through faith in Christ. The church is not Israel. Israel and the church are two different peoples of God.
I'm not the one making up things. You have a very poor understanding of things. And accusing me of trying to prove that Jesus is not the Messiah is asinine.
Now answer my question. When are you going to admit that Judaism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Messiah? For a Gentile to convert to Judaism he'd have to deny that Jesus is the Messiah. Jews who come to believe in Jesus (Messianic Jews) are not considered by Jews to be Jewish.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
