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Jesus would love the sinner but He would say, "Go and sin no more."
But not if no "sin" were involved and no one has come up with convincing evidence that a same-sex relationship IS "sin." All we see is prejudice, which is ALWAYS harmful.
Finn talking about dodging questions??? That's a laugh!
Notice that he didn't bother to respond to my statistics about higher levels of social dysfunction among Bible belt states? Another proof of his hypocrisy.
And every girl and woman in Miami coveted Dan Marino in the 80s and 90s.
The "Christians hate gays" argument is a fake. Christians do not hate them. Agreeing with Biblical views means they disagree with them, but that does not equate hate. If it did, then you could argue gays hate Christians for the same reason.
One poster said the below about Christians, although a 1000 page thread was dedicated to the fake argument of Christians hating gays. It is up to the readers to decide which side it fits better:
"Everything is seen through a prism of "they hate us, we are persecuted, being picked on." It's very bizarre to those on the outside whose words are misused and twisted to fit this paradigm."
If not hate, then what? I refer you back to my questions.
Notice that he didn't bother to respond to my statistics about higher levels of social dysfunction among Bible belt states? Another proof of his hypocrisy.
Too soon, but
He never responded to any of mine on the previous thread either. Just kept repeating things about the gay agenda, and how 1 line in one post said something he believes isn't true. He's a hypocrite and a liar, quite frankly, yet he somehow thinks if he just doesn't answer questions, that means he has won.
This is why I keep comparing him to a chicken on a chess board. He kicks all the pieces over, craps on the board, and struts off like he won. He can't even answer simple questions about his beliefs. It's quite sad.
I will let geekigurl respond to your questions, but I do want to point out one thing, and this is where a lot of the disconnect comes in. It is the bolded/blackened part above.
The only way a gay person is "misguided", is if you think that gay people just up and choose to be gay. The only way you can possibly think this, is if you believe gay people and science to be liars, and odds are, you don't know any gay people, at least not very well. The fact is, gay people are born that way. To say they are merely misguided, is a way of dismissing this fact, and blaming the person for being gay.
So let me ask you some questions that no other person has answered, except for Jeff, but his answer was... how do I nicely say this.... severely out of touch with reality and hypocritical.
When did you choose to be straight? When did you make the conscious decision to only be attracted to people of the opposite sex? How did you choose?
I'll start there, and let you answer.
Those are fair questions. But, It doesn't really matter when or I how I chose. I have given my testimony at our church and even during a youth service, I'll leave it at that. The bigger matter is we are all drawn to sin one way or another. If we know it is sin, how do we deal with it? There are certain sins that are more alluring to me than others. So I have to be more on guard in those areas. We are born sinners. Our genes have been corrupted over the eons. So, yes, sometimes we are bent this way or that way. Other times, we chose to sin. It doesn't really matter which it is. Sin is sin. If the manual says this works and that doesn't, are you purposely going to ignore what it says?
Jesus' death on the cross and acceptance of such covers all sin. The Holy Spirit comes into our lives and begins His work changing us to be more and more Christlike. We come as we are. God does the molding and changing. And it may hurt, It may hurt a lot. Look at Job. Most of us would regard him as basically sinless, but he wasn't. He even admitted he wasn't. He was righteous. He sought God's face when he sinned. The process he went through was more painful than most of us can imagine.
So, in regards to the post topic, it comes down to whether or not the LGTBQ lifestyle is considered a sin by God. And let me be clear, it is no more sinful than other sins I listed in my first response. It is no more sinful than speeding on the freeway. Sin is sin. I believe God makes it clear that it is. Just as he makes it clear that whole other multitude of behaviors are sinful. All sin breaks our fellowship with Him. Only Jesus' blood and forgiveness restores it. God loves us despite our sin. As Christians, he expects us to trust Him and allow the sinful areas to be changed. And at times, we mess up. We seek his forgiveness and we move on.
And by the way, being tempted is not sin. Following through with the temptation either physically or mentally would be a sin. If I have thoughts of murdering a jerk boss, that isn't a sin. But, obviously if I follow through with it, it is a sin. If I daydream about it, and kill him/her in my daydream that would also be a sin. I would need to seek God's forgiveness and might have a few things I need to work on. :O)
When we are presented with information that demonstrates something we are doing is not right in the sight of God, how should we respond?
If not hate, then what? I refer you back to my questions.
I already told you. I did not bring up STDs in the other thread, but whoever did was factually correct, because studies show gay men have significantly higher prevalence of STD than non-gay. It is not hateful to mention such fact as a part of a 1000 page debate, just like it is not hateful to have a biblical view on the topic. You need to learn to accept other views without accusing the other party of hate (or worse, like many other posters here do).
That is horribly hypocritical, but I am glad you listened to what I said about helping other believers when they sin. unfortunately your problem is the fact that you accuse them of sins they are not guilty of. That makes you a false witness.
Strive to enter through the narrow gate "saint". Don't get lost.
You do not worry about Jesus' words to pharisees? Who is the most logical parallel in this day and age? The church, no? Do you think you are totally in with Jesus in every area and you don't see any chance that you are actually against him by holding onto the law instead of his finished work?
I do. I tremble. The whole reason I have about faced on many of these issues. I am not being Christ or expressing his heart to the world. It horrors me that I once did. I am here pleading with you and others to see this as well.
And you respond with this? Look, Finn, this reply smacks of the pharisees! Why don't you step back and ask God if you are being doing the same? It really breaks my heart that you would callously slap me (Cyber slap that is) the way you just did? False witness? Lost of the gate? Really?
I read through 3 pages and no body has responded. That was challenged. Here is my response as a Christian.
I can't speak for everyone. Sin is heart breaking. All sin breaks God's heart. My speeding down the freeway break's God's heart, but you are right, I don't get the same judgement that the LGBTQ community does. I suppose a big disagreement is whether or not the LGBTQ lifestyle is a sin. I believe God's word says it is. Do I understand you to believe, that you don't think it is? So in that case, one of us is wrong. Love means that we can make choices we disagree with, but again, it doesn't mean there are no consequences. So honest question, If I understand you correctly, and you believe it isn't a sin, what if it is? How should loving Christians deal with Sin? Galatians gives us a clue. It doesn't tell us not to judge, it tells us to basically look in the mirror first and be careful and if we don't deal with fallen brothers/sisters in a loving manner, we may find ourselves caught up in a similar fashion. So I need to help my fallen brother/sister see the error and hopefully move on from it. Whether that error is LGBTQ or any of the other sins I listed in my first response.
I don't hate LGBTQ people. I believe they are misguided. I believe God calls us to come to him as we are and then allow the Holy Spirit to move in us and change us. I am not the same person I was before I became a Christian. Some days are better than others. By God's strength, I get through. By his Grace, I wake up and have another opportunity to serve him.
You have a right to be treated with respect. You ultimately have the right to live the lifestyle you choose. But I have the right to look in the Word of God and say, maybe He doesn't approve of it.
So, I asked a couple of questions of you. How do you respond?
In His Grip, cd :O)
I can't figure out why you guys are in the gang where the gang leader hates and want homo's KILLED and still type out a pile of bs stating You don't have any issues with homos your gang leader does.
I can't figure out why you guy are in the gang where the gang leader hates and want homo's KILLED and still type out a pile of bs stating You don't have any issues with homos your gang leader does.
My gang leader (I assume you mean God) has an issue with all sin. He doesn't want sinners dead. He sent His son Jesus Christ to die for them (and me and you). He loves you. He loves me. He loves them. He doesn't want any to perish.
Those are fair questions. But, It doesn't really matter when or I how I chose. I have given my testimony at our church and even during a youth service, I'll leave it at that.
Except it clearly does matter, when you are saying that people choose to be gay. This part is nothing but a cop-out on your part. Either you chose who you are attracted to, or you didn't. If you didn't, as we all know you didn't whether you say it out loud or not, then you are simply saying gay people were born that way (which means your God MADE them that way), but shouldn't ever act out on it, because that is bad... You are essentially saying that gay people should live their entire life celibate and alone, or pretend to be something they are not.
That isn't a very good way to look at things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisCD
The bigger matter is we are all drawn to sin one way or another. If we know it is sin, how do we deal with it? There are certain sins that are more alluring to me than others. So I have to be more on guard in those areas. We are born sinners. Our genes have been corrupted over the eons. So, yes, sometimes we are bent this way or that way. Other times, we chose to sin. It doesn't really matter which it is. Sin is sin. If the manual says this works and that doesn't, are you purposely going to ignore what it says?
So if you are "bent" to be gay, you should just choose to be straight? That's what you are going with here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisCD
Jesus' death on the cross and acceptance of such covers all sin. The Holy Spirit comes into our lives and begins His work changing us to be more and more Christlike. We come as we are. God does the molding and changing. And it may hurt, It may hurt a lot. Look at Job. Most of us would regard him as basically sinless, but he wasn't. He even admitted he wasn't. He was righteous. He sought God's face when he sinned. The process he went through was more painful than most of us can imagine.
Yes, God playing games to hurt people is awesome, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisCD
So, in regards to the post topic, it comes down to whether or not the LGTBQ lifestyle is considered a sin by God. And let me be clear, it is no more sinful than other sins I listed in my first response. It is no more sinful than speeding on the freeway. Sin is sin. I believe God makes it clear that it is. Just as he makes it clear that whole other multitude of behaviors are sinful. All sin breaks our fellowship with Him. Only Jesus' blood and forgiveness restores it. God loves us despite our sin. As Christians, he expects us to trust Him and allow the sinful areas to be changed. And at times, we mess up. We seek his forgiveness and we move on.
Yes, it does come down to that. Gay people are born gay, and will never see it as being a sin, therefore will never seek forgiveness for it. God made them that way, so why should they? I realize you probably think that this doesn't matter, but it does to anyone who is gay. For you and your buddies to just say, "Well, they should just stop acting gay, and act straight to appease God" does nothing but harm. If God/Jesus loves us regardless, then gay people have no problem being who they are. Seems that isn't actually what you mean though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisCD
And by the way, being tempted is not sin. Following through with the temptation either physically or mentally would be a sin. If I have thoughts of murdering a jerk boss, that isn't a sin. But, obviously if I follow through with it, it is a sin. If I daydream about it, and kill him/her in my daydream that would also be a sin. I would need to seek God's forgiveness and might have a few things I need to work on. :O)
When we are presented with information that demonstrates something we are doing is not right in the sight of God, how should we respond?
So again, you are going with, "gay people just shouldn't do gay stuff,"? What should they do then, chris? Stay alone and never have that love? Remain celibate for their entire life? Pretend to be something they are not? All of these things would have seriously negative impact on the VAST majority of people, gay or straight.
A gay person can no more be straight than you can be gay. Just imagine being told for your entire life, that you should just be gay, and stop being straight. Could you do it?
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