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It is funny how you invent claims and then ask "is this what we are supposed to believe". Classic straw man fallacy.
No one has claimed to be sinless. However, it is a problem when you choose to live in deliberate and habitual sin while making excuses for it, while demanding everyone agree your sin is not sin.
Should we continue to sin? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Everyone stumbles, but if you live in deliberate and habitual sin, you might want to examine yourself.
I doubt He would say anything different than what He said back in His day on earth.
Such as judging others, having no compassion for others, failing to love others? Agreed, such a person ought to examine his/herself and remove the plank from his/her own eye.
Funny, none of the women I know who have PCOS are gay. It's not a disease that can be passed around. You know that, right?
You ARE focused on gay sex. There are a lot more STDs all around these days, not just among gay people. Look at all the strains of HPV in the heterosexual population.
The STDs prevalent in gay men are due to the ease of transmission of those particular STDs in certain sexual practices, not some sort of curse on gay men because they are gay. Microbes are not a tool of God's judgment. They are just living things looking to survive and multiply, like everything else on the planet, and have nothing to do with the mistreatment of people who are attracted to those of the same sex.
Frankly, jeff, this focus on diseases seems to validate the suspicion that some Christians seek reasons to reject their gay brothers and sisters. Shouldn't the Christian concern be to find cures for these illnesses and to provide education for safer sexual practices so that transmission rates go down? Or better yet, to encourage LGBTQ people to seek more meaningful, long-term relationships by letting them know they are acceptable and loved just as they are?
Really, we are suppose to just ignore evidence because in your own limited circle, PCOS hasn't happened?
His implication (which I thought was not going to be allowed here) is that I am a closet gay who thinks about gay sex all the time which is a complete lie and cheap shot. I'm not focused on gay sex. Outside of this thread, it occupies zero percentage of my daily to daily thought processes. What is it going to take for people like you to finally admit that there is real dangerous consequences with the gay lifestyle? The CDC is shouting loud and clear to wake up people. This is a real problem in the gay community. Two-thirds. 66%. In a minority population. That's an extreme alarming rate.
Course all you do is point the finger back at us. We are to blame because we are not accepting enough. Yet, I thought the polls said the majority was now accepting. Shouldn't the rates be going down instead of up? We only have to look at how people behaved in Sodom and Gommorah to see what happens when you live in opposition to God's design. The focus on diseases is to let them know that they are playing with fire. It can harm them both spiritually and physically.
Really, we are suppose to just ignore evidence because in your own limited circle, PCOS hasn't happened?
His implication (which I thought was not going to be allowed here) is that I am a closet gay who thinks about gay sex all the time which is a complete lie and cheap shot. I'm not focused on gay sex. Outside of this thread, it occupies zero percentage of my daily to daily thought processes. What is it going to take for people like you to finally admit that there is real dangerous consequences with the gay lifestyle? The CDC is shouting loud and clear to wake up people. This is a real problem in the gay community. Two-thirds. 66%. In a minority population. That's an extreme alarming rate.
Course all you do is point the finger back at us. We are to blame because we are not accepting enough. Yet, I thought the polls said the majority was now accepting. Shouldn't the rates be going down instead of up? We only have to look at how people behaved in Sodom and Gommorah to see what happens when you live in opposition to God's design. The focus on diseases is to let them know that they are playing with fire. It can harm them both spiritually and physically.
So, Jeff still hasn't paid attention to all of y'alls responses, I see.
So again, even if he can't see this, it isn't the "gay lifestyle" that is to blame. It is the promiscuity and unsafe sex of SOME gay men that cause these issues. There are millions of gay men that have no diseases, and have never been promiscuous or unsafe. Believe it or not, little Jeffrey, gay people are, for the large part, just like straight people. There are those that are smart about their sex lives, and those that aren't.
I'm not going to be a part of a group that tortures a child of God like this anymore. If they say they are gay, then God bless them. I just can't anymore.
I'm going to err on the side of mercy, grace, love, acceptance and inclusion. Jesus loves them as much as me. Died for them as much as me. Accepts them as much as me. And doesn't require anything of them to come to him. What he does with them and their sexuality is between him and them and I am not taking part in that discussion unless one of them specifically asks my opinion and or help in the matter.
There. That's where I'm at.
I can appreciate your position and I can appreciate Traci's. Can you appreciate mine? God is all about mercy, grace, love, and acceptance, but he is also a God of Truth and ultimately judgement. I do believe people want to focus on the good stuff (great stuff really) at the exclusion of the tough stuff.
I have missed a lot of posts, clearly. I have noticed in this set, that the same things we are accused of (hate) seem to be directed towards Finn and others. And I would say that two wrongs don't make a right.
Clearly it is a touchy subject. I do my best to show the good, but not neglect the tough. At the end of the day, everything will be between us and God. At the end of the day, I do believe God loves us all, regardless of our sin. And through Jesus, we can be saved. That is the core of Christ's message.
In general, come to Him and let Him sort it out. However, obviously in practice and in different churches, that will play out differently.
I don't think it is hateful to tell someone you think they are sinning. If I am walking around drunk, I am sinning, and I would hope a Christian brother or sister would lovingly try to help me see my error. If I am in an adulterous affair or addicted to P%rnography, the same. All sin is sin, but some are more destructive than others.
I do believe a different approach is needed for Christians and non-Christians. But that is probably for a different day.
I don't think it is hateful to tell someone you think they are sinning. If I am walking around drunk, I am sinning, and I would hope a Christian brother or sister would lovingly try to help me see my error. If I am in an adulterous affair or addicted to P%rnography, the same. All sin is sin, but some are more destructive than others.
You are making the same mistake as others, chris. There is a difference in being born gay, and choosing to go get drunk or cheat on your wife. You aren't born a drunk or adulterer, and your choices lead you to those things. You make a choice to pick up a bottle, or go out and find someone to cheat with. This is in no way the same as being born gay. This is not a choice, it is how you are born.
So again, telling someone being a drunk and adulterer is bad is not the same as telling someone that they were born so flawed that they can not have any intimate relationships for the entirety of their lives, or they are living willfully and habitually in sin.
Really, we are suppose to just ignore evidence because in your own limited circle, PCOS hasn't happened?
His implication (which I thought was not going to be allowed here) is that I am a closet gay who thinks about gay sex all the time which is a complete lie and cheap shot. I'm not focused on gay sex. Outside of this thread, it occupies zero percentage of my daily to daily thought processes. What is it going to take for people like you to finally admit that there is real dangerous consequences with the gay lifestyle? The CDC is shouting loud and clear to wake up people. This is a real problem in the gay community. Two-thirds. 66%. In a minority population. That's an extreme alarming rate.
Course all you do is point the finger back at us. We are to blame because we are not accepting enough. Yet, I thought the polls said the majority was now accepting. Shouldn't the rates be going down instead of up? We only have to look at how people behaved in Sodom and Gommorah to see what happens when you live in opposition to God's design. The focus on diseases is to let them know that they are playing with fire. It can harm them both spiritually and physically.
Jeff, again you misread. Might queen stated that within her group none of those with it were gay and you read it as nobody in her group has it. Totally different between what she posted and what you claim she postef.
Sort of glad that it isn't just my posts that you don't read properly.
I can appreciate your position and I can appreciate Traci's. Can you appreciate mine? God is all about mercy, grace, love, and acceptance, but he is also a God of Truth and ultimately judgement. I do believe people want to focus on the good stuff (great stuff really) at the exclusion of the tough stuff.
I have missed a lot of posts, clearly. I have noticed in this set, that the same things we are accused of (hate) seem to be directed towards Finn and others. And I would say that two wrongs don't make a right.
Clearly it is a touchy subject. I do my best to show the good, but not neglect the tough. At the end of the day, everything will be between us and God. At the end of the day, I do believe God loves us all, regardless of our sin. And through Jesus, we can be saved. That is the core of Christ's message.
In general, come to Him and let Him sort it out. However, obviously in practice and in different churches, that will play out differently.
I don't think it is hateful to tell someone you think they are sinning. If I am walking around drunk, I am sinning, and I would hope a Christian brother or sister would lovingly try to help me see my error. If I am in an adulterous affair or addicted to P%rnography, the same. All sin is sin, but some are more destructive than others.
I do believe a different approach is needed for Christians and non-Christians. But that is probably for a different day.
cd :O)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
You are making the same mistake as others, chris. There is a difference in being born gay, and choosing to go get drunk or cheat on your wife. You aren't born a drunk or adulterer, and your choices lead you to those things. You make a choice to pick up a bottle, or go out and find someone to cheat with. This is in no way the same as being born gay. This is not a choice, it is how you are born.
So again, telling someone being a drunk and adulterer is bad is not the same as telling someone that they were born so flawed that they can not have any intimate relationships for the entirety of their lives, or they are living willfully and habitually in sin.
Can you really not understand the differences?
Chris is certainly not as shrill as Jeff, BF, Finn and the guy that shouts in the choir loft. I really see him as someone more from my background as opposed to hardline Fundamentalism.
Chris, the reason I have moderated on this subject is the experience with my college buddy who went through everything any conservative church would have him do. Secular counseling, Christian counseling, anti depressnts, Healing services, Deliverance sessions, speaking in tounges, Ex-Gay boot camp in kentucky, the list is absolutely mind blowing. He loves the Lord with all he is but is gay to the core and could not shake it after 20 years of doing everything Christians told him to do to be free of being gay.
None of it took.
Finally he came to peace with himself and with God that he was gay. Who am I to tell him to go back to what didn't work. If you have an answer that is biblical and sound, I am sure he would try it again. He wanted desperately with every fiber of his being to be straight, marry a woman, raise a family like what he grew up with and saw all around him.
Yet it wasn't to be found.
How can we as the church reject this guy anymore? I can't. If I am defrocked and excommunicated, so be it. But there are those that truly love the Lord and do not demean scripture that feel the same. I have just got to find them I guess.
It's beyond me that anyone cannot see that the discrimination and marginalization of gays in this society (and such discrimination completely has its roots in fundamentalism) is the direct cause that they would be more promiscuous. Many cannot be open and in a loving relationship because of fundamentalist attitudes.
I don't understand it either. Here is an article about minority stress, that explains it pretty well.
From the article.
Quote:
One of the most prominent theoretical and explanatory frameworks of sexual minority health risk is the minority stress model. The concept of minority stress stems from several social and psychological theoretical orientations and can be described as a relationship between minority and dominant values and resultant conflict with the social environment experienced by minority group members (Meyer, 1995; Mirowsky & Ross, 1989; Pearlin, 1989). Minority stress theory proposes that sexual minority health disparities can be explained in large part by stressors induced by a hostile, homophobic culture, which often results in a lifetime of harassment, maltreatment, discrimination and victimization (Marshal et al., 2008; Meyer, 2003) and may ultimately impact access to care.
Really, we are suppose to just ignore evidence because in your own limited circle, PCOS hasn't happened?
His implication (which I thought was not going to be allowed here) is that I am a closet gay who thinks about gay sex all the time which is a complete lie and cheap shot. I'm not focused on gay sex. Outside of this thread, it occupies zero percentage of my daily to daily thought processes. What is it going to take for people like you to finally admit that there is real dangerous consequences with the gay lifestyle? The CDC is shouting loud and clear to wake up people. This is a real problem in the gay community. Two-thirds. 66%. In a minority population. That's an extreme alarming rate.
Course all you do is point the finger back at us. We are to blame because we are not accepting enough. Yet, I thought the polls said the majority was now accepting. Shouldn't the rates be going down instead of up? We only have to look at how people behaved in Sodom and Gommorah to see what happens when you live in opposition to God's design. The focus on diseases is to let them know that they are playing with fire. It can harm them both spiritually and physically.
Why are the highest STD rates concentrated in the Bible Belt?
Why are the highest teen pregnancies concentrated in the Bible Belt?
Why are the highest rates for violent crime and property damage concentrated in the Bible Belt?
Why are the longest incarceration terms concentrated in the Bible Belt?
Why is the worst healthcare in the nation concentrated in the Bible Belt?
Why are the worst education levels concentrated in the Bible Belt?
(I have provided sources for the other social issues and for education it is here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/karsten.../#5741d06151e1 )
Why do continue ignoring all these problems in "believer" states which probably make up ten or twenty thousand more problems for each single case of STDs among LGBTQ? And you can't blame those problems on LGBTQ people because states in the Bible Belt south average FEWER gays as a percent of their population than that of the nation as a whole--which is 3.8%
Alabama --3.0%
Mississippi -- 3.2%
Louisiana -- 3.7%
Arkansas-- 3.0%
SC - 3.5%
NC - 3.5%
Texas -- 3.6%
Tennessee -- 3.0%
Kentucky -- 3.3%
West Virginia - 3.4% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_d..._United_States
So with fewer gays, the Bible Belt still manages to score higher on the STD rate. One can only conclude is that, after you drive all the gays away from your "believer" states, the crime rate goes up, teen pregnancy increases, education declines, healthcare deteriorates---in other words the more one "believes" and practices worshiping the Bible, the more horrible social conditions become---- at least that is the same "logic" you are using about gays being a "threat."
Why do you fail to note that the CDC says YOU and your ilk are likely responsible for the increase of STDs among LGBTQ people?
Quote:
CDC officials think they know why gay and bisexual men may be more susceptible to STIs and STDs. "Higher prevalence of infection within sexual networks" increases the likelihood of cases, according to a CDC statement from last year, in addition to "barriers to receiving STD services such as lack of access to quality health care, homophobia, or stigma."
I find it quite interesting that you are doing everything you can to stigmatize gay marriage and sexual activity while refusing to allow schools to teach something other than abstinence (the reason your ilk has such high teen pregnancy) nor provide health care to resolve some of the problems you have helped cause.
That truly is outright evil. Not even close to good or close to "I'm misunderstood," it is pure evil. And it resides in that heart of darkness that keeps pumping garbage onto the internet. Nathan's finger is pointing at you jeff, and he is shouting at the top of his voice "YOU ARE TO BLAME!"
Last edited by Wardendresden; 07-26-2019 at 11:51 AM..
Truth. Until very recent times, gays had to go underground to associate with other gays. Fundie mindsets forced that surreptitious behaviour and its unsurprising results.
And fundies like jeffie and Finny and BF want them to return to that shadowy, dangerous existence instead of being able to live openly in a loving, committed relationship.
Fundies have all the warmth and compassion of cobras and none of their charm. I believe many of them are not simply stupid and poorly educated. I believe many of them are evil. There have been several such posting here over the years. There's still two. And more will come.
And I'll be here to greet them.
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the
Inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will
shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness ,
for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious
Anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers
And you will know
My name is the TroutDude when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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