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Lot and his daughters got delivered because of their relationship to Abraham. Nothing more. Nothing extra special or righteous about them. In fact Lot is just as bad. Giving over his daughters who were helpless against a mob compared with angels that had powers to stop them? Seriously?
Without their connection to Abraham and his covenant with God, they would not have had the insight to get out. Go read chapter 18 of Genesis again and stop this nonsense. To justify their latter incest because the other was that much worse? Are you freaking kidding me? Where is your thinking? It isn't godly at all.
he didn't give them over , he only appeared to offer them a concession.. thus trying to appease the demons never works.
but he had little choice . he as well as Elijah ( after the preists of baal death and their demons were released ) was no match for that kind of demonic assault!
If Elijah wasn't spiritual and holy and whatever else you think it takes to compbat the demonic forces at that level.... if Elijah and Lot and Job and Peter..........you see neither can anyone on this list without The authority of the Lord and his sacrifice and ownership of hell and death and consequently all curses and all things born of hell.. Now he has authroity over it all... but they didn't then!
and like elijah not one of us is able to defend ourselves against that kind of assault on our person or our minds and our souls without the Lords protection and authority..!
so yes those nasty critters FEEEEEL organic!! .. but they are not anymore than they were organic to Elijah when he was crying under than bush in fear of Jezebell.. when he had just called down fire from heaven and raised the dead.....
and none of you have done that !!! .. so he was twice the man you are..
my point is only YOU in The Lord 's authority can fight that battle of those spirits particularly that excessive play ground of lust and FEEEEEELINGs>>... man makes sin a habit and get bonded to sin by curses, vows ( the kind you are making right now as you read this ) and oaths . these alone will hold you to those sins forever unless you repent and ask the son for help..
The Son is the one who went to protect Elijah and care and he fed him... He can help you too .. because those powers are not organic to your humanity. In our selves only .. none of us are a match for them. They been at it for thousands of years and are very very good at what they do.. to deceive the human " soul"( the mind, will and emotions.)
Please asK Jesus for help while you still can. because they are going to hell with or without you!
I am leaving this conversation now . SO please pray and please repent , the time is close .. ask him and he will come to you.... so thatt he Lord can set your soul free from what destroyed Sodom and all in it, the Baal's and all of it !
Romans 1:25 comes to mind when I think about them and our society in general:
The posters here reject God's Word for a lie and exalt the physical things in this world before spiritual. Our society is just like the people in Romans. They worship the created human body from admiring athletes to models.
Agreed. Before I knew the Truth I was wrapped up in the New Age movement not knowing any better. Those ‘teachers’ sold me their junk filled with their twisted scripture and lying ideals. But, the Lord stepped in and saved me. I almost considered the circumstances on how He did it supernatural. And that is why I am so fervent to let the unsuspecting and uneducated in the Bible know that what they are peddling is wrong and the teaching is false and dangerous.
Agreed. Before I knew the Truth I was wrapped up in the New Age movement not knowing any better. Those ‘teachers’ sold me their junk filled with their twisted scripture and lying ideals. But, the Lord stepped in and saved me. I almost considered the circumstances on how He did it supernatural. And that is why I am so fervent to let the unsuspecting and uneducated in the Bible know that what they are peddling is wrong and the teaching is false and dangerous.
Have you ever really considered the pain your “truth” causes to so many people and compared that to the “fruit of the Spirit?”
Umm no. I am not going to waste time on arguing with reprobates. I dont know you but you sound like an arrogant pompous person. 2 strikes against you as Christians are not called to argue with people dead set against the Word. So, i don’t really care about your opinion. . ``
Most all on this site have decidedly to follow a god made in their own minds in order `to give themselves some spiritual sprinkle in their worldly life. They have made their decision to be anti Christ or to be against Jesus the second in the Trinity. I am just making sure the truth is being told in this forum so that the unsuspecting get a chance to know God’s Word and His Truth
I have argued with the fundamentalegalist side you have aligned with using the scripture and looking at the scripture and weighing it all with what Jesus commented about it. Some say it is a fairy tale or an ancient document that doesn't apply to today because they haven't studied. I am not in that camp. I believe the scripture is God breathed and God given so we can know him and his ways. But I believe the whole of scripture should be what is used to weigh individual scriptures with themselves. Some call it the bible being contradictory. I don't hold to that. I believe the whole is harmonious within itself.
Some study the law and are legalistic and do not know the freedom of the power of the spirit. Some have taken doctrine preached to them and bought it with just a verse here or there to back up their stance that is not God breathed but have just enough scripture in it to think they have the corner on the truth. I do not think I have a corner on the truth. I will continue to study and pray and meditate on his word. I have 40 plus years doing so and have gleaned from various streams within the larger body of Christ. I have just begun and will not be done until I see him face to face.
If you think it is pompous to call you on the fact that you haven't offered much in meat of scripture to bolster your stance here, then think it. You have offered very little scriptural study other than say "the bible says it!" So what, the bible says it... to whom is it said? By whom? to what people or group? What is the circumstances those people were in? What is the greater context being spoken to? Where is the gospel of Jesus within that scripture? If the scripture doesn't point you to the cross, then you need to study further.
The scriptures aren't some witch's incantation to throw a verse here or there and think you've done some supernatural act. The scriptures are rich and deep. You don't have to have a degree or study the ancient languages to understand what they say. I don't think Kmom is a bible scholar, but her insights here are as rich and deep and full of life and the Spirit as any great seminary professor I've read. Same with Romulus and Jerwade and others.
The thing that brought me here was seeing Jesus' harsh words of condemnation to the Pharisees. I realized how much of the pharisee was in me. I realized that a stance condemning the homosexual and rejecting him or her from the life of the church was akin to being a Pharisee. Commanding them to turn from their orientation before they can come to Jesus is of the law. It is the yeast of the pharsisees. I shudder to think that Jesus would see me as one of the ones he called "white washed tombs full of dead men's bones" and a "brood of vipers." Curse words wouldn't sting more.
Yet so many here are being just as these. Few of the Pharisees repented and recognized the Messiah that their scriptures promised. I dare say many here would not recognize Jesus walking in their church and sitting on the front pew. "Lord, when did we forsake you and not give you food when you were hungry and not give you drink when you were thirsty?"
Do you really want to hear that from him? Seriously? Look inside KJoe. The heart of the Phraisee is at work in your belief system. Your words here won't turn a single person from homosexuality. All they will see is another fundie Christian who hates them and sadly will think that God thinks that about them too.
That line of thinking is worth standing up against every single time it is brought forth. Jesus came for the least of these, loves the least of these and commands we do too.
Last edited by Saintmarks; 09-02-2019 at 08:32 PM..
I hope that Mightyqueen doesn't mind but I went back to the thread entitled Sodom & Gomorrah: Is There Any Chance That We Can Get It Right Once And For All? and grabbed her post, copied below. This is Post #35 from Mightqueen and it was submitted 9-9-2015. Please, read it ...it's interesting:
I already mentioned this on the other thread, but it's just not exciting enough.
Lot is in the city, has to flee the city--for whatever reason--to get to the point of the story. Then his wife has to disappear--also to get to the point of the story. (Google Images "Dead Sea Pillars of Salt" for pictures of what might have inspired this part of the tale.)
The city is being destroyed by God, so Lot and his two daughters have to flee further into an isolated place--to get to the point of the story.
Then we get to the whole point of where this tale is leading. Lot's daughters, isolated and without chance for marriage, decide to mate with their own father in order to have children. They get him drunk, of course, so it can't be his fault, of course, and each in turn has sex with him, conceives, and bears a son. One becomes the father of the people known as the Moabites, the other becomes the father of the people known as the Ammonites.
And that's the point of the story: The Moabites and the Ammonites--obviously not the buddies of the tale teller or the listeners--are descended from a couple of inbred bastards. Not something to brag about in the Middle East several thousand years ago.
But wait, there's more! Jesus is descended from David, the great-grandson of a Moabite woman. Whaddya know.
I hope that Mightyqueen doesn't mind but I went back to the thread entitled Sodom & Gomorrah: Is There Any Chance That We Can Get It Right Once And For All? and grabbed her post, copied below. This is Post #35 from Mightqueen and it was submitted 9-9-2015. Please, read it ...it's interesting:
I already mentioned this on the other thread, but it's just not exciting enough.
Lot is in the city, has to flee the city--for whatever reason--to get to the point of the story. Then his wife has to disappear--also to get to the point of the story. (Google Images "Dead Sea Pillars of Salt" for pictures of what might have inspired this part of the tale.)
The city is being destroyed by God, so Lot and his two daughters have to flee further into an isolated place--to get to the point of the story.
Then we get to the whole point of where this tale is leading. Lot's daughters, isolated and without chance for marriage, decide to mate with their own father in order to have children. They get him drunk, of course, so it can't be his fault, of course, and each in turn has sex with him, conceives, and bears a son. One becomes the father of the people known as the Moabites, the other becomes the father of the people known as the Ammonites.
And that's the point of the story: The Moabites and the Ammonites--obviously not the buddies of the tale teller or the listeners--are descended from a couple of inbred bastards. Not something to brag about in the Middle East several thousand years ago.
But wait, there's more! Jesus is descended from David, the great-grandson of a Moabite woman. Whaddya know.
Let me guess, u think the story is just a fable, a work of fiction, right?
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