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Who are you refusing when you refuse to bake a cake "for an activity" you don't approve of, BF?
Just like Facebook has a right to censor people. Just like C-D has a right to censor posts. Just like other businesses have a right to do. A baker has a right to refuse to put a message he doesn't agree with on his cake, or to cater a function he has a moral objection to.
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You seem to like playing word games, like you buddy Finn, but any of us with a room temp or above IQ can see through you. You are advocating for Christians to be able to turn away gay people, because they don't approve of the reason they want to purchase something... Would you think the same thing if someone turned away a mixed race couple because they don't agree with "that lifestyle"?
The fact that you can't figure out the difference between refusing to serve a function or activity and outright refusing a class of people is on you. There is a clear distinction there and you seem to have a limited ability to comprehend it. I'm sorry for you. I really am. But please stop lying about me and others here.
Just like Facebook has a right to censor people. Just like C-D has a right to censor posts. Just like other businesses have a right to do. A baker has a right to refuse to put a message he doesn't agree with on his cake, or to cater a function he has a moral objection to.
No, not "just like Facebook", BF. This has been explained to you multiple times. You have to sign and agree to TOS on places like FB and CD, and you have to follow the TOS, or risk being censored/removed. A business that people walk into is not even remotely the same.
No one has asked this baker to put a message on a cake, or to cater a gay wedding though, have they? They simply asked for a wedding cake. The same wedding cakes that the baker makes for straight people, and adulterers, and everyone else. Refusing to make it for the gay couple is discrimination. Period.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
The fact that you can't figure out the difference between refusing to serve a function or activity and outright refusing a class of people is on you. There is a clear distinction there and you seem to have a limited ability to comprehend it. I'm sorry for you. I really am. But please stop lying about me and others here.
There is no difference. You are refusing the people because you don't agree with the activity they are wanting the cake for. You are refusing them because they are gay, regardless of your reasoning for the refusal.
Also, how is it any different in refusing a gay couple because you don't agree with them getting married, and someone refusing a mixed race couple because they don't agree with them getting married? Seems like you only want one specific group to be targeted here, BF.
No, not "just like Facebook", BF. This has been explained to you multiple times. You have to sign and agree to TOS on places like FB and CD, and you have to follow the TOS, or risk being censored/removed. A business that people walk into is not even remotely the same.
No one has asked this baker to put a message on a cake, or to cater a gay wedding though, have they? They simply asked for a wedding cake. The same wedding cakes that the baker makes for straight people, and adulterers, and everyone else. Refusing to make it for the gay couple is discrimination. Period.
There is no difference. You are refusing the people because you don't agree with the activity they are wanting the cake for. You are refusing them because they are gay, regardless of your reasoning for the refusal.
Also, how is it any different in refusing a gay couple because you don't agree with them getting married, and someone refusing a mixed race couple because they don't agree with them getting married? Seems like you only want one specific group to be targeted here, BF.
Good try. But reasoning with fundies is a sisyphean task. Either they're too dumb to understand or too dishonest to engage.
Fortunately, all of them are too dim to be subtle. They might as well be made of plastic.
It's what the Bible says. Have you read 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus? Paul commanded them to appoint elders to lead the church. Those elders are to teach the people.
I'm not sure how much more clearly I can say that everyone is welcome in a church, including LGBTQ.... people. They are welcome to attend. But membership is reserved for those that have expressed faith in Christ, and live as a Christian. You find that surprising? If I join ANY organization I'm expected to live by their rules. How is church any different? Or is it only YOUR rules that we're expected to follow?
Of course, secular organizations have rules people have to follow. Church is different because of the definition of "sin" and making the rules about sin. Sin encompasses everyone, in thought and deed. It is a state of being, of missing the mark. The type of church discipline that people interpret Jesus to be talking about, is more like a gang of bullies. That certainly could not have been the spirit in which that verse was intended. Also, the whole point of church is for the sinners, so it is sets a bar of exclusion at exactly the point where you want to welcome people.
Good try. But reasoning with fundies is a sisyphean task. Either they're too dumb to understand or too dishonest to engage.
Fortunately, all of them are too dim to be subtle. They might as well be made of plastic.
Oh, it isn't for them, Trout. It is for anyone reading who may be on the fence in regards to this issue. Maybe there is some other poor soul out there who has been taught that discriminating against gay people is okay, but they are feeling that it is wrong. Maybe I can get them off the fence, and on the right side. (Yes, there is a right and wrong side to this issue, and those advocating FOR discrimination are on the wrong side)
I am not trying to reach those that are already too far into the Kool-Aid to find their way out.
No, not "just like Facebook", BF. This has been explained to you multiple times. You have to sign and agree to TOS on places like FB and CD, and you have to follow the TOS, or risk being censored/removed. A business that people walk into is not even remotely the same.
They believe people should be coerced into doing anything that suits their agenda. Personal freedoms are a thing of the past.
No, not "just like Facebook", BF. This has been explained to you multiple times. You have to sign and agree to TOS on places like FB and CD, and you have to follow the TOS, or risk being censored/removed. A business that people walk into is not even remotely the same.
Yes it is. Facebook is a business. CD is also a business. You don't think they keep this site up for altruistic reasons, do you? You are deliberately not seeing the parallel because you are emotionally invested in your position and don't want to. We have free speech in this country. If you can't exercise free speech on CD or FB because they're private businesses with rules, the baker should also be able to violate what you feel are someone's constitutional rights. His private business--his rules.
Oh, it isn't for them, Trout. It is for anyone reading who may be on the fence in regards to this issue. Maybe there is some other poor soul out there who has been taught that discriminating against gay people is okay, but they are feeling that it is wrong. Maybe I can get them off the fence, and on the right side. (Yes, there is a right and wrong side to this issue, and those advocating FOR discrimination are on the wrong side)
I am not trying to reach those that are already too far into the Kool-Aid to find their way out.
Agreed. It's one of the reasons why I butt heads with them too. When they put me on ignore, like Brave Sir Fundie and little jimmiej, I know they've conceded defeat. And many of my reps come from lurkers who applaud seeing bigoted bullies get what they deserve.
They believe people should be coerced into doing anything that suits their agenda. Personal freedoms are a thing of the past.
"They" believe that people should be required to obey laws that are put into place because of a history of abuses. You seem to think it is about opinions, but it is about real people being hurt for no good reason.
I also want to add, the caveat about "agreeing to TOS" is only valid if FB and CD apply the rules consistently. Which they don't. You don't have a good argument on this, 90s.
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