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It isn't clear. Every verse you use to substantiate that homosexuality as an orientation within an individual as we know it today has been thoroughly refuted with scholarly study. Do not say it is clear when it is clear that is not clear, is that clear?
And who determines nature? God. He created everything. And He created a natural role and purpose that was distinct for animals and one for humans. Homosexuality is unnatural to the design He had for humans.
Your question is too vague to answer. Science does not have all the answers. It doesn't even have most of the answers.
You are the one determining it is God's nature for one man, one woman. The actions of God's faithful servants in the OT illustrates the opposite. His promise to David through Nathan that He would have given David more wives if David had only asked, puts to rest your inability to SEE what God does.
Science is the study of God's world. It has ALL the natural answers. It is only the spiritual ones upon which we must rely on Jesus to ILLUSTRATE God's nature. Using Jesus as the yardstick leaves you permanently in your pagan lifestyle.
Just read the Bible. It really is clear. If you read it without reading into it, it's impossible to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is approved by God.
Just read the Bible. It really is clear. If you read it without reading into it, it's impossible to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is approved by God.
But slavery, rape, misogyny, genocide and bashing babies heads against rocks is A-OK with that very same god-thing.
Just read the Bible. It really is clear. If you read it without reading into it, it's impossible to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is approved by God.
Try reading it yourself. Moderator cut: personal attack/insult
Quote:
They wave their Bibles at passersby, screaming their condemnations of homosexuals. They fall on their knees, worshipping at the base of granite monuments to the Ten Commandments while demanding prayer in school. They appeal to God to save America from their political opponents, mostly Democrats. They gather in football stadiums by the thousands to pray for the country's salvation.
They are God's frauds, cafeteria Christians who pick and choose which Bible verses they heed with less care than they exercise in selecting side orders for lunch. They are joined by religious rationalizers—fundamentalists who, unable to find Scripture supporting their biases and beliefs, twist phrases and modify translations to prove they are honoring the Bible's words.
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The Bible is not the book many American fundamentalists and political opportunists think it is, or more precisely, what they want it to be. Their lack of knowledge about the Bible is well established. A Pew Research poll in 2010 found that evangelicals ranked only a smidgen higher than atheists in familiarity with the New Testament and Jesus's teachings. "Americans revere the Bible—but, by and large, they don't read it,'' wrote George Gallup Jr. and Jim Castelli, pollsters and researchers whose work focused on religion in the United States. The Barna Group, a Christian polling firm, found in 2012 that evangelicals accepted the attitudes and beliefs of the Pharisees—religious leaders depicted throughout the New Testament as opposing Christ and his message—more than they accepted the teachings of Jesus.
Newsweek's exploration here of the Bible's history and meaning is not intended to advance a particular theology or debate the existence of God. Rather, it is designed to shine a light on a book that has been abused by people who claim to revere it but don't read it, in the process creating misery for others. When the illiteracy of self-proclaimed Biblical literalists leads parents to banish children from their homes, when it sets neighbor against neighbor, when it engenders hate and condemnation, when it impedes science and undermines intellectual advancement, the topic has become too important for Americans to ignore, whether they are deeply devout or tepidly faithful, believers or atheists.
Except where it actually says that it's wrong. I mean..really. You have to do some major mental gymnastics to try to justify it in the Bible. If you want to do that, fine. Knock yourself out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Just read the Bible. It really is clear. If you read it without reading into it, it's impossible to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is approved by God.
How can you say impossible? Say you choose to believe that homosexuality as an orientation is sinful. Say that. Say that it is your interpretation of scripture. But be honest and say that you had been told that it was sinful long before you read the scriptures on it. Your doctrine was formed before you ever studied scripture. You did NOT come to this subject matter in a vacuum.
Others have, others have changed their thought on this when balancing the whole of the scripture, so don't use terms like "its is clear" and "it is impossible."
You know what is possible? To let go of long held doctrinal beliefs and find that scripture does not back it up. When Jesus chooses not to speak on a subject matter, it is worthy of looking at what others in the scripture say about it.
And when the message of Jesus is tarnished by holding views that are discriminatory to a minority population, you diminish the gospel. You need to see the God of the impossible and see him clearly. I implore you.
How can you say impossible? Say you choose to believe that homosexuality as an orientation is sinful. Say that. Say that it is your interpretation of scripture. But be honest and say that you had been told that it was sinful long before you read the scriptures on it. Your doctrine was formed before you ever studied scripture. You did NOT come to this subject matter in a vacuum.
Others have, others have changed their thought on this when balancing the whole of the scripture, so don't use terms like "its is clear" and "it is impossible."
You know what is possible? To let go of long held doctrinal beliefs and find that scripture does not back it up. When Jesus chooses not to speak on a subject matter, it is worthy of looking at what others in the scripture say about it.
And when the message of Jesus is tarnished by holding views that are discriminatory to a minority population, you diminish the gospel. You need to see the God of the impossible and see him clearly. I implore you.
The Bible teaches us that God made male and female. He ordained marriage as 1 man, 1 woman. He allowed men to marry multiple women at times. But he never once declared male/male or female/female sexual relationships or marriage to be good.
To go further, he explicitly stated homosexual behavior was sinful. There is no debating that. It is clear. I'm sorry for being so clear on this. It's a sinful behavior.
As for Jesus "not speaking" on it? He affirmed male/female marriage in Adam and Eve. Nevermind the fact that he's God and he inspired the Bible. In any event, Jesus never spoke on pedophilia. You going to come out for that, now?
The Bible teaches us that God made male and female. He ordained marriage as 1 man, 1 woman. He allowed men to marry multiple women at times. But he never once declared male/male or female/female sexual relationships or marriage to be good.
To go further, he explicitly stated homosexual behavior was sinful. There is no debating that. It is clear. I'm sorry for being so clear on this. It's a sinful behavior.
As for Jesus "not speaking" on it? He affirmed male/female marriage in Adam and Eve. Nevermind the fact that he's God and he inspired the Bible. In any event, Jesus never spoke on pedophilia. You going to come out for that, now?
There you go again staining the image of Jesus with equating LGBT with pedophilia. Would you sit with a pedophile for pizza or next to at church? Why do you do this, act like you are loving and accepting then equate them with a criminal?
Do you not see how unbiblical that is, how unChristlike that is?
There you go again staining the image of Jesus with equating LGBT with pedophilia. Would you sit with a pedophile for pizza or next to at church? Why do you do this, act like you are loving and accepting then equate them with a criminal?
Do you not see how unbiblical that is, how unChristlike that is?
Fundies have nothing in common with Christ and everything with his old man.
There you go again staining the image of Jesus with equating LGBT with pedophilia. Would you sit with a pedophile for pizza or next to at church? Why do you do this, act like you are loving and accepting then equate them with a criminal?
Do you not see how unbiblical that is, how unChristlike that is?
PSA Pt. I:
All last week I was sick with the flu. It was awful. I was too sick to eat for four days straight, and two of those days I couldn't do anything but lay in bed and shake from chills. It was awful. I'm just now getting my strength back, though my joints are still a bit achy. Please go get your flu shots. All of you. You are my family, and despite doctrinal disagreements I love each and every one of you, even if I pick on you sometimes it doesn't mean I don't love you. (Steve, my pastor can confirm that if I give you unmerciful unshirted hell I am your fangirl, because I do it to him constantly, and I am a major Pastor Steve fangirl) I do.Please go get your flu shots. You really don't want any part of this.
PSA Pt. II:
It's funny how a misplaced vowel can completely change a sentence, especially with words like 'shots', watch your spelling, kids.
We seem to focus on leadership, when talking about LGBT people serving in the church. But that isn't what I want. I don't want that kind of responsibility. I have enough trouble keeping track of my housekeys, I will not be held responsible for the spiritual well being of others. Plus teachers are judged more harshly than others, and I'm probably on thin ice as it is (kidding). What I mean by serving is helping out with work days (painting, minor church maintenance etc), helping during our fall block party, VBS and things like that. Technically I could do those things, BUT some would go to Steve and voice their disapproval (some loudly...they've done it before). He's got enough on his plate already, and I don't think he should have to deal with people who would balk at the idea of me painting, or serving food or doing whatever alongside them. So for the sake of unity I don't ask to help when I really really want to. That's what I mean when I say I want to serve. I don't want to lead. I DO NOT WANT TO PREACH. EVER. I don't want to sing (that would be just excruciating for anyone within ear shot, and PETA would accuse me of torturing cats again). I just want to help. I want to feel like I belong. That's all.
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