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I'll just put this in the swamp over here since the other thread was closed.
Responding to the following...
The verses are not about condemning anybody - and its not specifically about idolatry. The verses explain how the wrath of God is displayed in a culture that rejects Him. The entire section goes from verse 18 thru 32.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
**- The wrath is God is revealed against men who suppress the truth.
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
**- They suppress the truth about God even though God made it evident - how?
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
**- God can be acknowledged in the design of what has been created - sun, moon, stars, trees, etc.
21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
**- Men rejected God and gave honor and glory to themselves or anything or anyone else except God who deserves it. In response - the following verses lists how God's wrath is revealed among to the people. Note the three areas where God allows people to reap the fruit of their unrighteousness.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
**- All of the things listed (v 24-32) about which God has allowed to occur is evidence of his wrath (v. 18). Many have an improper view of what God's wrath is - in that we use our own picture of some out of control maniac. That's not who God is. In this case - God's wrath is displayed in his removal of His protection from the effects of sin and unrighteousness. And included in that - is the move towards homosexuality, which is clearly described as error.
Note the three things affected by our collective unrighteousness and the fruit that God allows through His wrath - impure lustful hearts that lead to dishonoring our bodies (v 24-25), degrading passions leading to unnatural sexual behavior (v 26-27), and a depraved mindset that leads to hate and criminal behavior (v 28-32).
The remedy is not immediately to change from homosexuality - but primarily to correct the truth about who God is and how He saves people from the effects of sin. Once a people receives the truth about God and places faith in Jesus Christ - then other aspects of their lives can be addressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Most fundamentalists point their finger at others, so I am wondering - if it could be that you have been given over to the passions of your own heart? For the Scriptures speak a great deal on the practice of males who kept boys as sex slaves (child abuse), but has virtually nothing to say about those in a committed adult relationship, other than the practice of idolatry or adultery? As a matter of fact, it addresses the marriage relationship for the most part and those who are unfaithful to their spouse or perverted in their thinking (i.e., prostitution, rape, child-abuse and/or watching porn). So, could it be that fundamentalists (or people in general ) are suppressing the truth - while hiding behind their own thoughts, deeds and actions - and the Bible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
I have no idea what you are talking about, which is OK with me.
It was the (pagan) temple sex rituals among "heterosexuals" and idolatry that was the focus. So, while same-sex behavior existed (i.e., prostitution or pederasty - the relationship between an adult male and a younger male, usually under aged) it had nothing to do with gay people or what is viewed as modern day homosexuality or sexual orientation. You really need to understand the mindset and culture of that day - before making any assumptions. Otherwise, you come across as prejudice and obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion or faction which is intolerant of others, not like you. Or, if you prefer - a bigot.
He loves me quite a bit, but then I'm a God believing Christian, not a Bible believing one.
He told me to go burn in hell. The Bible is the Word of God. It is our weapon and shield against false Christs and the enemy. So a Bible believing Christian is a God believing Christian.
It isn't just "disagreeing" most of the time when it comes to homosexuality. Either you know that, and are simply playing dumb, or you don't, and you are dumb... So which is it, BF?
I'm asking an honest question. I don't hate anyone. Certainly not gay people. Nor am I irrationally afraid of them (the definition of a phobia). But I do get called that on this forum all the time by people that I simply disagree with.
So anyone that has a moral conviction on it that differs from you is probably just a jerk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
It isn't just "disagreeing" most of the time when it comes to homosexuality. Either you know that, and are simply playing dumb, or you don't, and you are dumb... So which is it, BF?
He knows. He's not merely playing dumb, he's being deceptive.
So to the ones who say their objections are merely "moral convictions"...
What if… you’re wrong?
If I am wrong, the Holy Spirit will simply pursue me with correction, go around and ahead me to correct the misleading, and work in the lives of LGBTQ people to lead them to “repentance.”
However, if you’re wrong…
You have condemned, marginalized, persecuted, and falsely judged an entire group of God-imaged people.
You have labeled as sin, that which is not.
Some of you have disowned your own children. Labeling them, casting them out. While God declares “I will never leave you nor forsake you” you have abandoned, or at best, distanced yourself from that which God purposed you to forever love and protect.
You have put barbed-wire fences where God meant for tables.
You have been a contributor to the depression, the isolation, the terror, the suicide, and the living hell of countless people.
You have participated in nothing less than the new racism of the 21st Century.
And worst of all, you have joined the choir of the False Accuser, singing songs of pure evil, believing them to be hymns of the Savior that reflect His heart and mind.
You have partnered with Satan in the stealing, killing, and destroying of an entire population of God’s beloved.
…all, in the name of Jesus and biblical faithfulness.
Honestly, I am ok if somehow it turns out I’m wrong.
My question for you is, how can you ever be ok with the possibility… you are?
He told me to go burn in hell. The Bible is the Word of God. It is our weapon and shield against false Christs and the enemy. So a Bible believing Christian is a God believing Christian.
Jesus Christ is the Word of God. The only Word of God.
John 1:1-5
Quote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Jesus Christ is the Word of God. The only Word of God.
John 1:1-5
You just quoted the Bible to prove the Bible is unreliable.....
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