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Nope. I didn't say that. I said that if it violates the conscience of a baker to make a cake to celebrate a sinful ceremony, he/she should be willing to excuse themselves. Nowhere have I said they should be able to discriminate against any person.
1. You didn't answer the question---Dodger.
2. You weren't called "stupid" --- Liar.
3. The whole misleading discussion points to a lack of cognitive ability on your part:
We recognize a certain inability on the part of fundamentalists to connect the dots. We are reminded of this with virtually every post you make, which are primarily "Nuh-Uh" and "You're just picking on a poor, persecuted "christian."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
So what's your point? That we should lower the bar and just ignore all blatant, unrepentant sin?
We should acknowledge we are sinners and do our best to accept our grace and share it with others. Live honestly and humbly with one another in love and humility. My pastor and his husband say openly they are sinners, and cling to God and his mercy. They wrestle with it. But after many years of being tormented by guilt and feeling they were drawn to be gay they affirmed to be the best people they could be and to be honest. I respect that. What I don't respect is my childhood Assembly of God saying gays have to be celibate and try to be straight. That just makes people lie and pretend. They get married and try but all that does is leave families hurt. Do you want your daughter to marry a closeted gay man for example ?
Against a ceremony, or an event. Not people. There is a difference. By the same token, one could choose to discriminate against a kkk event, or a nazi event, etc. I'm sure you have no issue with that.
We should acknowledge we are sinners and do our best to accept our grace and share it with others. Live honestly and humbly with one another in love and humility. My pastor and his husband say openly they are sinners, and cling to God and his mercy. They wrestle with it. But after many years of being tormented by guilt and feeling they were drawn to be gay they affirmed to be the best people they could be and to be honest. I respect that. What I don't respect is my childhood Assembly of God saying gays have to be celibate and try to be straight. That just makes people lie and pretend. They get married and try but all that does is leave families hurt. Do you want your daughter to marry a closeted gay man for example ?
You should read 1 Timothy 3. There is no allowance for unqualified men to lead the church. He sets out specific requirements, and he commands Timothy to call out false teachers. He doesn't allow for them to "wrestle" with it. God cares for his people that much. He has high standards.
So what's your point? That we should lower the bar and just ignore all blatant, unrepentant sin?
It sounds like since everyone sins to some degree, it is wrong to have any bar at all. Its like comparing someone with a parking ticket to another person with a mile long criminal record.
Personally I leave it to church leadership to handle. If I one day realize I am in conflict with their judgment on the matter, I will find another church
You should read 1 Timothy 3. There is no allowance for unqualified men to lead the church. He sets out specific requirements, and he commands Timothy to call out false teachers. He doesn't allow for them to "wrestle" with it. God cares for his people that much. He has high standards.
I know the verse. It teaches divorced men cannot be pastors or Deacons. But like I said we have many of those now. Just as long as they are not gay.
Against a ceremony, or an event. Not people. There is a difference. By the same token, one could choose to discriminate against a kkk event, or a nazi event, etc. I'm sure you have no issue with that.
No, they are not discriminating against a wedding. They are discriminating against 2 people because of their sexual orientation. That's discrimination, and it's against the law in several states.
It sounds like since everyone sins to some degree, it is wrong to have any bar at all. Its like comparing someone with a parking ticket to another person with a mile long criminal record.
Personally I leave it to church leadership to handle. If I one day realize I am in conflict with their judgment on the matter, I will find another church
But you assume in God eyes it's like comparing a parking ticket to a mile long criminal record. If you were Catholic that would be comparing venial and deadly sins. But Evangelicals reject deadly sins. So it's really just comparing a long list of criminal records to an other all our equal.
No, those who complain realize that a honest person is better then a Pastor who lies about himself. I have a gay pastor and I am inspired by his witness of Grace. He makes me a better Christian. Not like a man who is gay who has a wife and kids to hide it for the Church. I appreciate a Church that's says a Pastor can be judged by God ultimately.
This is wisdom right here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
It should be obvious. You cant have a person who is a blatant & unrepentant sinner as the leader of the church. You make it sound like anyone should be allowed to be pastor of a church.
There are guidelines, and qualification criteria, and the church leadership creates the guidelines based on their best understanding of the scripture.
A person who is a 'blatant and unrepentant' sinner wouldn't exhibit the fruits of the spirit. So if someone demonstrates the fruits of the Spirit, which come from the Spirit, and YOU think they are a blatant and unrepentant sinner, then maybe the problem is with your perception of them, and not them?
A person who is a 'blatant and unrepentant' sinner wouldn't exhibit the fruits of the spirit. So if someone demonstrates the fruits of the Spirit, which come from the Spirit, and YOU think they are a blatant and unrepentant sinner, then maybe the problem is with your perception of them, and not them?
Wow never thought of that. Great.
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