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What Bible are you reading? Why can't you see that Jesus was firmly against sin? He is practically begging people to NOT sin here even take drastic measures if that is what it takes. Nothing absolutely nothing on this earth is worth risking going to hell.
Matthew 5:29
Love covers a multitude of sin (This was effective before the cross, how much more so now?) for those who live by the same, not so for those who love to point the finger and condemn assumed sinners and are to busy enlarging the splinter in the eye of others while ignoring the plank in their own.
Do you realize that in God's eyes, even a "marriage" between 2 men or 2 women, it's the same as promiscuity or adultery? That's what God said, and Jesus affirmed.
And yes -- it is damaging in so many ways. One way is that God's relationship to the church is likened to marriage. The church is said to be his Bride. It does have relevance. If one's view of marriage is low, then their view of the church is also very likely low.
But do some cause us to deserve hell more than others? No.
where does your idol state that same sex marriage and adultery are one and the same? It doesn’t. Where does it say God HATES gays? It doesn’t.
But God states about divorce
Quote:
“For I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the Lord of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”
Malachi 2:16
Give us one single example of how a gay marriage has harmed you. Ever. Maybe it challenged your sensibilities the way mine are challenged by fundamentalist churches, but fundamentalism in all its form has divided this nation from top to bottom and I believe it will be the destruction of the United States.
Escape it. There is nothing more anti-Jesus than “christian” fundamentalism. Jesus didn’t come to set you free only for conservative Evangelicalism to imprison you with their tractor beams of guilt, shame, and religious rule-keeping. Right-wing, conservative Christianity knows that without “control” they have nothing—that’s the very essence upon which it’s entire faith system hinges.
Jesus delights in everything about you, as well as homosexuals, not because you, or they, don’t miss the mark from time-to-time, but because His love never does.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 07-30-2019 at 06:25 PM..
That two guys get together and do whatever two guys do to find sexual enjoyment is not near as bad as a church that keeps these men from the love of Jesus by their rejection of them. That is a much more damaging sin to many, many more people.
Do you eat with them Jeff? You ever break bread with people who drink too much? Have sex outside of marriage? Lies and slanders others????
I would bet a million bucks you do, making you a HYPOCRITE.
He goes to a church that has whole pewfulls of people with drinking problems, flat out adulterers, and women who have had sex outside of marriage. Gossips? More in church than anywhere else. According to CD member, GoldnRule (sp?) who is a self confessed pornographer as in owning a store, he would be out of business if it weren’t for “christians” visiting his store.
Quote:
—stronger religious beliefs increase the risk of a person identifying themselves as addicted to pornography, or struggling with porn use. Religion has a long history of serving to restrict sexual behaviors.
The survey conducted over the past five years revealed that 68 percent of Christian men and 50 percent of pastors view pornography regularly. But even more shocking is that 11-17 year-old boys reported being its greatest users. The Church is in the sexual battle of its life. As these boys become adults, the Church will be flooded with porn addicts. Pastor James Reeves of City On A Hill Church DFW has successfully tackled porn addiction in his church. He warns, “This problem is going to sweep through the Church like a tsunami wave of destruction and we’re not prepared for it.”
Kmom, Your soul inspires and elevates us all in Christ's love. Would that some of the hardened fundamentalists could let their hearts be touched by it.
Thank you so much! You are very kind, and your posts inspire me as well!
It would be handy if you could perhaps give us a list of those sins that are more damaging than others, Jeff. I guess homosexuality is one of them though no has yet offered a biblical reason why God would have His tights in a twist about who is intimate with whom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
You don't believe some sins are more damaging than others?
Really?
We seem to be talking at cross purposes when it comes to biblical 'sin' and 'wrongs' or 'crimes' or 'misdemeanors'. The word 'sin' is pure Bible. I doubt that anyone appears before a magistrate charged with 'a sin'. They appear before a magistrate charged with any of the terms I mentioned. As I've said previously, a 'sin' is, apparently, a biblical term for 'falling short of the glory of God', i.e. as in being in an 'unrighteous' state. Paul tells us that "none are righteous" which would mean that no one is 'sinless'.
So, I asked Jeff for a list - not of 'wrongs' or 'crimes' or 'misdemeanors' - but of the 'sins' that are more damaging than others. Perhaps Jeff CAN present such a list as asked of him since he apparently knows which are more damaging than others. I also wanted to see where 'homosexuality' was rated on Jeff's list of 'damaging' sins. As most always, I'm funnin' with him.
Love covers a multitude of sin (This was effective before the cross, how much more so now?) for those who live by the same, not so for those who love to point the finger and condemn assumed sinners and are to busy enlarging the splinter in the eye of others while ignoring the plank in their own.
Also, bringing a person back to the law will cover the multitude of sins.
What?
How can we cover our own sins?
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 07-30-2019 at 10:36 PM..
There has to be a line drawn especially if a person makes it clear that they have no intention of turning from their sin.
I just see Jesus loving the woman caught in adultery and saying he doesn't condemn her vs. cursing the religious church of the day... "white washed tombs filled with dead men's bones".... "brood of vipers."
Did he speak to anyone in sexual sin this way? No. Just the religious.
Why do you not see that we in the fold, in the church, in the religious institutions... that we are so close to being the pharisees today? Why is that something you do not consider? What makes you and Finn and choirboy and BF not see that we are the people today in that position? Why doesn't this make you shudder and go to your knees? Do you really not think that Jesus is speaking thru other Christians... and even those that do not profess him when they challenge you here? Saying the same thing he said to those pharisees that made it nigh impossible for those that needed him most to come to him?
But all I see in the comments is pride. Pride that we got it right and they (anyone not in our camp) has it wrong. Jeff, you seem the most reasonable of all the ones in this debate on the "other" side.... do you not see that we, the church, could possibly be the ones that anger Jesus the most by the way we treat the least of these?
I ask this as a brother. Not snarky, not to win a debate point. I ask this sincerely.
I just see Jesus loving the woman caught in adultery and saying he doesn't condemn her vs. cursing the religious church of the day... "white washed tombs filled with dead men's bones".... "brood of vipers."
Did he speak to anyone in sexual sin this way? No. Just the religious.
Why do you not see that we in the fold, in the church, in the religious institutions... that we are so close to being the pharisees today? Why is that something you do not consider? What makes you and Finn and choirboy and BF not see that we are the people today in that position? Why doesn't this make you shudder and go to your knees? Do you really not think that Jesus is speaking thru other Christians... and even those that do not profess him when they challenge you here? Saying the same thing he said to those pharisees that made it nigh impossible for those that needed him most to come to him?
But all I see in the comments is pride. Pride that we got it right and they (anyone not in our camp) has it wrong. Jeff, you seem the most reasonable of all the ones in this debate on the "other" side.... do you not see that we, the church, could possibly be the ones that anger Jesus the most by the way we treat the least of these?
I ask this as a brother. Not snarky, not to win a debate point. I ask this sincerely.
Very good points! I would love to hear someone answer the question you asked, and not by using a Bible verse as a shield to avoid the very real ethical dilemma, but with their heart and conscience.
Very good points! I would love to hear someone answer the question you asked, and not by using a Bible verse as a shield to avoid the very real ethical dilemma, but with their heart and conscience.
No, preaching what Jesus taught does not anger Jesus. What I think will anger Him is people preaching that sexual immorality is not sinful, because that leads people away from the truth.
Besides, the claims saintmarks made are simply not true. Jesus spoke about sexual sin to people other than 'religious' aka pharisees, and He brought it up on multiple occasions like the sermon on the mount and in Mark 7. He wanted people to avoid sexual sin because he defiles people. He lumped it together with theft and murder.
Quote:
Mark 7 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
The pushers of the gay agenda will call anyone with Biblical views a 'pharisee' (and a multitude of other names, - nazi, KKK member, racist, liar, coward, hater, bigot etc, etc). Its gets old. I have never seen a more intolerant group of people in my life. There is nothing easier than trying to associate Christians to people who plotted to murder Jesus and then use that as an excuse to judge them. It's weak.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-31-2019 at 06:48 AM..
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