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Old 07-31-2019, 02:58 PM
 
Location: The Eastern Shore
4,466 posts, read 1,586,901 times
Reputation: 1565

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Please show me ONE (1) post that I've ever made that shows a perceived superiority to any gay person. I challenge you to do that. Please put up or shut up. Please stop representing me.

This is the mental gap that exists. It's hard to understand how one can possibly fail to understand that we don't consider ourselves better when we say that we are also sinners.
Any post you have made where you think Christian business owners should be able to discriminate against gays. Any post where you say they are habitual sinners (whether those exact words or not). Any post where you claim they can't serve in your church, or shouldn't be able to get married....

I can dig them up if you want, but that seems like a waste when you will be the only one who plays dumb and acts like you haven't said those things...

 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:04 PM
 
10,072 posts, read 5,687,968 times
Reputation: 2887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
This line.... who has it helped? Who do you know that heard this line and repented of homosexuality and walked away from it? Please, give me a personal experience where you know someone that was brought to a place where the walked away from homosexuality because a Christian used this line... either a non-Christian gay or a gay person raised in the church.

You use this line to make yourself follow the party line of the evangelical church. You do not use this line out of love for someone dealing with something you do not understand. Neither have you walked alongside someone that was raised in a Christian environment and who does not want these desires but has no other way to deal with them because they are hard wired into his/her system.

Please stop using this phrase Christians. There is NO LOVE in this statement. For the sinner or the sin.
Ok so what is the alternative? Love the sinner and embrace the sin? It sounds like you want to teach to be conformed to this world so that your mind can be renewed according to whatever society accepts. The Bible teaches the exact opposite:

Quote:

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Romans 12:2

We are to be aliens in this world, not like everyone else. And for someone gay then yes, that can mean to not give into the desires of your flesh.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:06 PM
 
18,845 posts, read 6,863,248 times
Reputation: 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
Any post you have made where you think Christian business owners should be able to discriminate against gays. Any post where you say they are habitual sinners (whether those exact words or not). Any post where you claim they can't serve in your church, or shouldn't be able to get married....

I can dig them up if you want, but that seems like a waste when you will be the only one who plays dumb and acts like you haven't said those things...
This is where you seem to lack some reading comprehension. I've never suggested that Christian business owners should be able to "discriminate against gays". At least no more so than atheist groups can discriminate against Christians. In the case of the bakers, they served gay people. They had no issue with that. They did not want to participate in a gay wedding. And that is their right under State and Federal laws.

Do you believe a baker has a right to refuse to bake a cake for any group? The KKK?

Do you believe Facebook can restrict what is posted? Twitter? City-Data? If so, why don't Christians have the right to do that on the cakes they bake?

How you would take that and say that I think that gay people are inferior, or that I'm better than them, or that we should be able to mistreat a gay person is just ridiculous. It clearly demonstrates your agenda to discredit Christians in an attempt to push your view.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,817,926 times
Reputation: 4187
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub View Post
I just wanted to reiterate thoughts about what love is to Christians particularly that last part.
Yes, not all Christians behave in the best manner when addressing these issues, but most I know are more well behaved.
Anyway, at some point, people need to shake the dust off their feet and leave it for a better time. Society is determined to go in a certain direction and is not receptive to anything that doesn’t fit a very distinct agenda.
There is a lot of hypocrisy on both sides.
Short, snarky responses filled with personal insults and late-night hosts eating popcorn make it hard to take them seriously or even want to listen to them. I shouldn’t have to mention also the flippant, careless use of the words “hate” and “bigot”. Those are nothing more than cheap shots to get the upper hand. I pretty much ignore those posts at this point as well.
Like I said before, this thread is utterly pointless.



This was sobering. Maybe you're right though, maybe at this point there's nothing left to do but walk away from my church. Because as you say, regardless of our pleas, and appeals to love, charity, and equal treatment under the cross of Christ, some people just refuse to be accepting or receptive to anything that doesn't fit a very distinct agenda. For some I will never be able to be good enough, for some will hold me to a standard that they themselves couldn't possibly live up to. And since people in church leadership will do nothing to address these realities, maybe at this point the only thing I can do is shake the dust off my feet and walk away. It's not something I want to do, but some leave me no choice.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:16 PM
 
5,912 posts, read 2,580,920 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why do you think many gays are in the closet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
because christians invented the pear of anguish to deal with the gays you and your jesus (aka yahweh) hate and want killed?





Can you guess where this was inserted and expanded Finn_Jaber?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
You didn't ask any questions. Y
This question Finn. But we both know how you are you sinner.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:25 PM
 
Location: The Eastern Shore
4,466 posts, read 1,586,901 times
Reputation: 1565
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
This is where you seem to lack some reading comprehension. I've never suggested that Christian business owners should be able to "discriminate against gays". At least no more so than atheist groups can discriminate against Christians. In the case of the bakers, they served gay people. They had no issue with that. They did not want to participate in a gay wedding. And that is their right under State and Federal laws.
My reading comprehension is just fine. Your word games mean nothing to me. They refused to make a cake for a gay couple. That is refusing service, is it not? And please, once again, tell us, how is a cake gay? How is making a cake for gay people participating in their wedding? These same bakers make cakes for 2nd, 3rd, 4th marriages. They likely make all sorts of cakes, and don't even know where they are going. They could be for a group of white supremacists getting married, or a bunch of homophobic nutjobs. They are picking out gay people, and saying, "I will not provide you a service that I provide straight people". Period. And you believe that is right and just, thus saying you believe Christians to be better, and more moral than gay people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Do you believe a baker has a right to refuse to bake a cake for any group? The KKK?
Because a hate group like the KKK is similar to a gay wedding, right, BF? You are turning into Jeff with these ridiculously idiotic comparisons.

No, I don't think they should bake a cake with KKK imagery or symbolism on it, nor anything else with hate speech or lewd images. Are you claiming a gay wedding is equivalent to these things? Because otherwise, your point is moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Do you believe Facebook can restrict what is posted? Twitter? City-Data? If so, why don't Christians have the right to do that on the cakes they bake?
Facebook, Twitter, and City-Data do restrict certain things, but they don't deny certain people access. Follow the rules set out on these websites (again, not remotely comparable, Jeff... err... BF), and your access or service is not going to be denied.

A bakery, for instance, is open to the public, and already makes wedding cakes, specifically. This would be an argument if the place only made cupcakes, or ice cream cakes, or birthday cakes, or something. They refuse to make a cake that they already make, simply because the person is gay. That is discrimination, and you think that is right and just. This would be like Facebook saying a gay couple couldn't post pictures kissing, but straight people could. It would be like City-Data banning talk about gay rights, but not other topics. Etc etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
How you would take that and say that I think that gay people are inferior, or that I'm better than them, or that we should be able to mistreat a gay person is just ridiculous. It clearly demonstrates your agenda to discredit Christians in an attempt to push your view.
Well, let's see.... You don't believe they should have equal access to all products. Right? After all, you just said they shouldn't have equal access to wedding cakes, and one would assume this would extend to anything else that could fall under a gay wedding or honeymoon or housewares, etc.

You believe that state and federal laws say discriminating against them due to religion is your right. Right?

You don't believe they should have the same right to get married. Right?

You don't believe they should be able to serve in your church. Right?

Yea, why would I think that this means you believe yourself to be better? Hmmm... Maybe because that is exactly what it sounds like?
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:40 PM
 
Location: NY
5,209 posts, read 1,780,972 times
Reputation: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Ok so what is the alternative? Love the sinner and embrace the sin? It sounds like you want to teach to be conformed to this world so that your mind can be renewed according to whatever society accepts. The Bible teaches the exact opposite:



Romans 12:2

We are to be aliens in this world, not like everyone else. And for someone gay then yes, that can mean to not give into the desires of your flesh.
The alternative is to focus on transforming ourselves. Turning our hearts to God. Trust God that whatever "sins" people have, God will take care of that and draw them to himself according to the plan he has for each person, which you are not privy to. In the meantime, just work at being the light of the world, at learning what love, mercy, forgiveness, generosity, etc means. I don't see how pointing out the "sins" of others is in any way necessary toward the primary task of transforming your own heart and mind. How can an un-transformed mind even see clearly enough to point out someone's sins (with a plank in the eye, and all). That should pretty much keep us busy for a lifetime, so that's the alternative.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,057 posts, read 12,793,132 times
Reputation: 6318
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I've repeatedly said that I'm no better than anyone else, regardless of the acronym or letters used. Honestly..I really don't get where you come off saying that.
If you truly understood the depth of your own sin and the marvelous grace of Christ that redeemed you, you would not hate gay people to the depth that you do. Your overall posts on this thread and the previous are proof of this. Even if you don't take a more "open" interpretation of the clobber verses used to pin down homosexuals as blatant unrepentant sinners, still the mercy you have received should be meted out in the same.

Even if you see homosexuality in scripture as a blanket sin that God abhors, where do you decide to elevate it above other sins? Your continual participation in these threads proves that you do. Your lack of love for someone like geekygurl and her own testimony of dealing with these issues all her life and her love of the Lord in spite of continued rejection by the church is another proof that you think you are better.

Your own stink don't stink. That's the message.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,057 posts, read 12,793,132 times
Reputation: 6318
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
This was sobering. Maybe you're right though, maybe at this point there's nothing left to do but walk away from my church. Because as you say, regardless of our pleas, and appeals to love, charity, and equal treatment under the cross of Christ, some people just refuse to be accepting or receptive to anything that doesn't fit a very distinct agenda. For some I will never be able to be good enough, for some will hold me to a standard that they themselves couldn't possibly live up to. And since people in church leadership will do nothing to address these realities, maybe at this point the only thing I can do is shake the dust off my feet and walk away. It's not something I want to do, but some leave me no choice.
There is a place for you. You might have to move to find it. But there are enough Christians here that love you just like you are and would have no agenda to fix you to prove that there are others out there. Keep your head up.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
8,057 posts, read 12,793,132 times
Reputation: 6318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Ok so what is the alternative? Love the sinner and embrace the sin? It sounds like you want to teach to be conformed to this world so that your mind can be renewed according to whatever society accepts. The Bible teaches the exact opposite:



Romans 12:2

We are to be aliens in this world, not like everyone else. And for someone gay then yes, that can mean to not give into the desires of your flesh.
I see the directive to not be conformed to this world something for me to discuss with, meditate on and ponder between me and the Lord. It will look as different from one to another as there are people out there. It is not for me to dictate to anyone else, not even my spouse, my parents, my brothers or even my own kids. My directive is to not teach God to anyone. God cannot be taught. God is to be discovered. All I or you can do is teach someone to seek.

Why is that a hard thing to do?
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