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While 'fleeing from immorality' in general is not exactly bad advice it was not 'God' who quoted the above but Paul. Would someone please explain to me/us once and for all as to how Paul ever became the official mouthpiece for God?
Would someone also please explain exactly WHAT IS the 'sexual immorality' that Paul speaks of in the above 1 Corinthians 6:18 text? This is SO vague. Also remember that Paul is speaking to the fledgling Christian Church of Corinth and not we in 2019. And so, we need to ask, 'What WAS going on WITHIN the church' (and NOT outside the church) that prompted Paul to refer to this particular line in his letter? Hint: were some of these Corinthian folks involved in pagan idolatry? Please, be specific!
I don't know what that means. However, it sounds rather like typical empty rhetoric to me.
I call those kind of empty and illogical conclusions 1+1=666.
People who set their own standards are basically saying they have no need for God.
God's standard is righteousness, it is not don't do this that and the other, righteousness is not put into effect by that means. I have no ear for religious fundamentalist's playing God , believing their standards are God's standard, based on opinions of what they "think" the bible is saying.
I realize that the below is a waste of forum bandwidth; however, it's the latest tirade from Israel Folau, the former Wallabies rugby union player who was fired by the administrators of Rugby Australia earlier this year for having posted inflammatory remarks against homosexual people on social media based on his religious views.
Sacked Wallabies star Israel Folau’s claim the bushfires that have devastated Australia and left six dead are God’s punishment for legalising abortion and same-sex marriage has sparked a furious reaction.
Dumped by Rugby Australia after warning homosexuals and other sinners they will go to hell unless they repent, Folau has doubled down on the stance in a video sermon posted to the Truth of Jesus Christ Church Sydney.
During the 10-minute recording, the 30-year-old says the timing of the bushfire crisis is no coincidence but only a taste of God’s judgment should nothing change. See/read more:
Only if you live in a fantasy world. In the real world, homosexuality causes quite a bit of harm:
And that's not even considering that they make up the majority of STD cases. And guess what, treatment for all this burdens an already overwhelmed healthcare system. And that effects everyone.
Fantasy world? You would certainly know a thing or two about that. Please, do tell me how being gay, being in a gay relationship, or getting married while gay caused STD's, alcoholism, or smoking. Can you do that? Can you also show that these things have nothing to do with the pressures and stigma they face on a daily basis from family members, friends, strangers, and society? It has been explained to you before, but you seem to have forgotten this part again... A lot of ills in the gay community are due to both real and perceived pressures from outside themselves. This leads to things like drinking, smoking, depression, and other things like that.
Are you really going to sit here and tell me that people who face more pressures and outside interference in their life are going to be just like everyone else? These things produce stress, anxiety, and depression. Add in the fact that they have to worry about being disowned by their own families, face issues at work, deal with bigots and the fear of what they may do to them on the street, and other things, and you have a good dang reason why you may have a higher incidence of things like drinking and smoking. If you are too childish and ignorant to understand this, you are just showing your lack of empathy. Again. And again. And again.
LOL, this is true, but to be fair, look at the context. He's writing to a specific group of people, the church community in Corinth. Obviously he's not just saying this stuff to pull something out of his ass. There must have been rumours or actual incidents going on that prompted him to specifically write what he wrote.
The fledgling church did not need to have outsiders looking in and saying, "Dang, look at these Christians. They're having orgies!" or some such. He wanted them to behave in a manner acceptable to the culture in which they were entrenched.
The mistake comes when we take words written to someone else and make it sound as if they were meant for everyone in every place. That's one of the dangers of literalism that we see, glaringly.
Knowing now in this day and age that homosexuality is a natural human condition, and having the wisdom and knowledge of God to understand that God is far beyond something that focuses on what people do with their privates in a consensual relationship, it's ridiculous to try to apply the words from that letter to the issue of SSM today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
While 'fleeing from immorality' in general is not exactly bad advice it was not 'God' who quoted the above but Paul. Would someone please explain to me/us once and for all as to how Paul ever became the official mouthpiece for God?
Would someone also please explain exactly WHAT IS the 'sexual immorality' that Paul speaks of in the above 1 Corinthians 6:18 text? This is SO vague. Also remember that Paul is speaking to the fledgling Christian Church of Corinth and not we in 2019. And so, we need to ask, 'What WAS going on WITHIN the church' (and NOT outside the church) that prompted Paul to refer to this particular line in his letter? Hint: were some of these Corinthian folks involved in pagan idolatry? Please, be specific!
I don't know what that means. However, it sounds rather like typical empty rhetoric to me.
Haven't been on in a week or two and no way to catch up so just looking at the latest convo. If I may weigh in here.
Concerning Paul and his specificity on sexual immorality in the fledgling churches and how that carries over today for God's heart for humanity and the Christian response.... Let me offer this.
A church should not be known as a place that fosters sexual immorality however you define it. I think it is safe to say that throughout the history of the church, in whatever form it takes in whatever country and or culture it is established, the people should find within a local church a place of respite from overt sexuality and not be tempted or have to deal with sexual impropriety however their particular culture defines that. I see Paul's warnings to the church body in Corinth that they had crossed that line and needed to straighten up.
The error, in my mind, is to use that warning to a church to then condemn individuals of their sexual behaviors. Compare the warning from Paul to this church as a whole to jesus and the woman caught in adultery. No personal condemnation.
A church should be a place that encourages all to bring their sexuality into the whole of their relationship with Christ. To submit it to him and let the Lord be the one to guide and define and love and correct. Some will 'straighten up' with one conviction. Others might take longer. Some may not ever feel a conviction about certain behaviors that the guy one pew over may regard seriously.
Nutshell: A church should be a place where all can come and receive from the Lord and gain answers for their own lives regardless of who they are..... The ones that some of us would consider promiscuous should be welcomed to come and hear and be a part of the community. Others should feel free to be a part of the same community without fear that the other guy's lifestyle that he may not approve will be forced on him either.
The church should be a safe place. The church should also be a welcoming place free of condemnation. in other words, the church should not be the place where orgies occur or that organizes orgies. But orgy goers should be free to come and receive the love of God freely.
Haven't been on in a week or two and no way to catch up so just looking at the latest convo. If I may weigh in here.
Concerning Paul and his specificity on sexual immorality in the fledgling churches and how that carries over today for God's heart for humanity and the Christian response.... Let me offer this.
A church should not be known as a place that fosters sexual immorality however you define it. I think it is safe to say that throughout the history of the church, in whatever form it takes in whatever country and or culture it is established, the people should find within a local church a place of respite from overt sexuality and not be tempted or have to deal with sexual impropriety however their particular culture defines that. I see Paul's warnings to the church body in Corinth that they had crossed that line and needed to straighten up.
The error, in my mind, is to use that warning to a church to then condemn individuals of their sexual behaviors. Compare the warning from Paul to this church as a whole to jesus and the woman caught in adultery. No personal condemnation.
A church should be a place that encourages all to bring their sexuality into the whole of their relationship with Christ. To submit it to him and let the Lord be the one to guide and define and love and correct. Some will 'straighten up' with one conviction. Others might take longer. Some may not ever feel a conviction about certain behaviors that the guy one pew over may regard seriously.
Nutshell: A church should be a place where all can come and receive from the Lord and gain answers for their own lives regardless of who they are..... The ones that some of us would consider promiscuous should be welcomed to come and hear and be a part of the community. Others should feel free to be a part of the same community without fear that the other guy's lifestyle that he may not approve will be forced on him either.
The church should be a safe place. The church should also be a welcoming place free of condemnation. in other words, the church should not be the place where orgies occur or that organizes orgies. But orgy goers should be free to come and receive the love of God freely.
Seems simple, yes? But a difficult place to find.
Saintmarks, good to see you and Happy Thanksgiving weekend.
May I ask you to explain how one would receive from the Lord by going to a church? Pragmatically, I mean, how does a church provide answers to a person's specific issues without getting all up in their personal business, and not calling out specific things that they label as sin? Are you saying they should simply be about the business of encouraging and equipping people to develop their own ability to receive those specific answers? Because I could get on board with that.
Haven't been on in a week or two and no way to catch up so just looking at the latest convo. If I may weigh in here.
Concerning Paul and his specificity on sexual immorality in the fledgling churches and how that carries over today for God's heart for humanity and the Christian response.... Let me offer this.
A church should not be known as a place that fosters sexual immorality however you define it. I think it is safe to say that throughout the history of the church, in whatever form it takes in whatever country and or culture it is established, the people should find within a local church a place of respite from overt sexuality and not be tempted or have to deal with sexual impropriety however their particular culture defines that. I see Paul's warnings to the church body in Corinth that they had crossed that line and needed to straighten up.
The error, in my mind, is to use that warning to a church to then condemn individuals of their sexual behaviors. Compare the warning from Paul to this church as a whole to jesus and the woman caught in adultery. No personal condemnation.
A church should be a place that encourages all to bring their sexuality into the whole of their relationship with Christ. To submit it to him and let the Lord be the one to guide and define and love and correct. Some will 'straighten up' with one conviction. Others might take longer. Some may not ever feel a conviction about certain behaviors that the guy one pew over may regard seriously.
Nutshell: A church should be a place where all can come and receive from the Lord and gain answers for their own lives regardless of who they are..... The ones that some of us would consider promiscuous should be welcomed to come and hear and be a part of the community. Others should feel free to be a part of the same community without fear that the other guy's lifestyle that he may not approve will be forced on him either.
The church should be a safe place. The church should also be a welcoming place free of condemnation. in other words, the church should not be the place where orgies occur or that organizes orgies. But orgy goers should be free to come and receive the love of God freely.
Seems simple, yes? But a difficult place to find.
Church = God's people, and Paul is not referring to 'a church'. His words apply to all believers. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we should not defile it with sexual immorality.
No one is coming for gays. Back in the day they had it worse, but at this time they have been placed on a protected class people, and have more rights than the average Joe. No one is coming for atheists either. On the contrary, it is becoming 'hip' to be atheists, and in countries like Sweden only 20% of the population believe God even exists, while people of faith are openly mocked and ridiculed.
No one in US is coming for anyone, but things are not as well in some other parts of the earth where many Christians have been put to death for their faith. Anyone who believes what the Bible teaches (via words of Jesus) knows one thing, and that is the fact that they WILL come for Christians. They came for Him, and they came for His disciples, and they come for the average Christian. All the insults and mockery you see here is only an early sign of what will become the norm, and then escalate from there.
We are already being told to either deny what we believe, or be labeled hateful, coward, nazi, bigot, stupid, etc
Hey,
I am in good part Swedish genetically speaking so maybe I have a soft spot for the country. My understanding is that over 60% of Swedish people are members of a church, though even if only 20% believe. Maybe that is because churches there preach a message of helping others that is inspirational? Sweden is known for being a very caring country.
I have been teased for being very religious, but nothing bad. You speak of oppression against Christians, but if we insist on a society where all people are protected under the law...Christians as well as LGBTQ then that society would prevent us from being attacked.
Christians are safer under such a construct....wouldn't you agree?
Hey,
I am in good part Swedish genetically speaking so maybe I have a soft spot for the country. My understanding is that over 60% of Swedish people are members of a church, though even if only 20% believe. Maybe that is because churches there preach a message of helping others that is inspirational? Sweden is known for being a very caring country.
I have been teased for being very religious, but nothing bad. You speak of oppression against Christians, but if we insist on a society where all people are protected under the law...Christians as well as LGBTQ then that society would prevent us from being attacked.
Christians are safer under such a construct....wouldn't you agree?
They are members of the church because the membership comes automatically at the time of birth, but as I said only 20% believe God even exists, and 5% actually to to church. Many old churches have been converted to discos and nightclubs.
There are laws against murder etc, and yet people are being put to death for their religion. As I said this is not happening US at this time, but it probably will in the future.
Church = God's people, and Paul is not referring to 'a church'. His words apply to all believers. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we should not defile it with sexual immorality.
I agree. But nobody is saying we should do that. Why can't you just let the instruction be general enough for adults to make their own decisions, between them and God? Especially in light of what we know about human sexuality in modern psychological science. Who made the church into a nanny?
I have this sinking feeling that someone is going to come in and say "So...you think someone should make their own decision about incest?" Please, don't be that person.
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Please, don't be that person.