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Isaiah 7:14. The Bible gives a prophecy of the name of Jesus. It says, "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel."1 If we go to Matt. 1:21, it says, "And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins." (See also, Matt. 1:25; Luke 1:31; 2:21). Is this a contradiction? No. It is not.
In ancient times names were often given as representations of the hopes and dreams of the parents or even of recognition of divine assistance. Names in the Old Testament had understandable meanings. For example: Abram means "exalted father," but Abraham means "Father of a multitude." Some names could even be translated into complete sentences as in Uzziel (‘God is my strength’ - Ex. 6:18), Adoniram (‘my lord is exalted’ - 1 Kings 4:6), and Ahimelek (‘my [divine] brother is king’ - 1 Sam. 21:1).2
Names are more descriptive in the Hebrew and Greek then they are in English. They often refer to the character, purpose, etc., of the one being named. The closest we come to understanding this is in Native American culture. We are familiar with such names as "Running Bear," or "Pretty Eagle, "or "White Owl" as names. These names meant something and were far more descriptive than "Bob," or "Tom," or "Sue."
To bring my point out further and when we come to Isaiah 7:14, we encounter a prophecy about the Messiah, stating that his name will be Immanuel. Immanuel literally means "God is with us." This is significant because Jesus is God in flesh:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us..." (John 1:1,14).
For in Him [Jesus] all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Col. 2:9).
You are spending a lot of time pushing this idea, antredd
Why would Jesus tell us to pray to the Father as He did? Was it to confuse us? Why didn't He tell us to pray TO Him? I pray to the Father and do so in Christ's name . . . because that is what He told us to do. If there were no difference . . . He would not have made a point of it, antredd.
Why would Jesus tell us to pray to the Father as He did? Was it to confuse us? Why didn't He tell us to pray TO Him? I pray to the Father and do so in Christ's name . . . because that is what He told us to do. If there were no difference . . . He would not have made a point of it, antredd.
I'm pushing this issue simply because you are doing what most people who deny who Jesus truly is by asking questions which doesn't disprove His deity. As a man, Jesus needed to pray. He clearly set the example for all of us and taught how we should even pray to our heavenly father just like he did when needed. Thus, when He was praying He was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father. For the life of me, I don't know why you would even think that I believe that Jesus and His Father are one in the same person. I have NEVER said that Jesus and His Father are one in the same nor do I believe that. So why are you thinking that me believing Jesus is GOD THE SON, MEANS THAT HE prayed to Himself?
You can't get around Jesus meaning Jehovah is Salvation nor that Immanuel meaning God is with us. Jesus saved us, and lived among us enough said for me. Now if His name meant Jesus is our Savior, and that Our savior is among us, then you would have a stronger point and the burden of proof would then fall back on me. AS of what Jesus' name means, I will not believe that JEsus is anything other than what the bible has revealed to us willing to accept it.
I'm pushing this issue simply because you are doing what most people who deny who Jesus truly is by asking questions which doesn't disprove His deity. As a man, Jesus needed to pray. He clearly set the example for all of us and taught how we should even pray to our heavenly father just like he did when needed. Thus, when He was praying He was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father. For the life of me, I don't know why you would even think that I believe that Jesus and His Father are one in the same person. I have NEVER said that Jesus and His Father are one in the same nor do I believe that. So why are you thinking that me believing Jesus is GOD THE SON, MEANS THAT HE prayed to Himself?
You can't get around Jesus meaning Jehovah is Salvation nor that Immanuel meaning God is with us. Jesus saved us, and lived among us enough said for me. Now if His name meant Jesus is our Savior, and that Our savior is among us, then you would have a stronger point and the burden of proof would then fall back on me. AS of what Jesus' name means, I will not believe that JEsus is anything other than what the bible has revealed to us willing to accept it.
I suspect that we have no real disagreement that matters to God, antredd . . . as long as we "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. My question regards how you pray. Is it to the Father or to Jesus? Do you think it matters?
I suspect that we have no real disagreement that matters to God, antredd . . . as long as we "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. My question regards how you pray. Is it to the Father or to Jesus? Do you think it matters?
I pray the way Jesus instructed all of us to pray. Our Father...then I proceed in the way the Holy Spirit leads me. Since Jesus is my mediator I also pray to Him and thank Him practically daily for dying for me, and for saving me. Do you too?
Why would Jesus tell us to pray to the Father as He did? Was it to confuse us? Why didn't He tell us to pray TO Him? I pray to the Father and do so in Christ's name . . . because that is what He told us to do. If there were no difference . . . He would not have made a point of it, antredd.
Jesus was living as a man and He wanted us to pray to God the Father part of Him and not the flesh and blood body that is the Son.
Jesus was living as a man and He wanted us to pray to God the Father part of Him and not the flesh and blood body that is the Son.
how would you spin this one...From Yeshua himself:
Joh_20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God, and your God.
If Yeshua was HaShem in the flesh, then how can this statement that He Himself made hold True?...Note, that He does not refer to them as Disciples but as BROTHERS...For He is the first-Born among MANY bretheren...
how would you spin this one...From Yeshua himself:
Joh_20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God, and your God.
If Yeshua was HaShem in the flesh, then how can this statement that He Himself made hold True?...Note, that He does not refer to them as Disciples but as BROTHERS...For He is the first-Born among MANY bretheren...
Why didn't Jesus just say, "I am ascending to OUR Father and OUR God"? The reason is that Jesus was always careful to distinguish His relationship with His Father from the relationship humans had to the Father. The question is why? Well Jesus was careful to do this because he was God's Son BY NATURE, whereas Christians are God's sons by adoption. Also Richard, it is significant that Jesus teaches us how to pray, and that's the only time HE tells us to pray OUR FATHER. Other than that, no where in Scripture does Jesus ever address God as OUR FATHER or OUR GOD.
My question to you is why do you think Jesus was always so careful to distinguish His relationship with the Father from the relationship Christians have to the father?
Why didn't Jesus just say, "I am ascending to OUR Father and OUR God"? The reason is that Jesus was always careful to distinguish His relationship with His Father from the relationship humans had to the Father. The question is why? Well Jesus was careful to do this because he was God's Son BY NATURE, whereas Christians are God's sons by adoption. Also Richard, it is significant that Jesus teaches us how to pray, and that's the only time HE tells us to pray OUR FATHER. Other than that, no where in Scripture does Jesus ever address God as OUR FATHER or OUR GOD.
My question to you is why do you think Jesus was always so careful to distinguish His relationship with the Father from the relationship Christians have to the father?
However, at this instance He names His disciples as brothers...Brothers have the same Father...Are there two different Fathers?...Two fifteenth Gods?...One each for Yeshua and one each for His brothers?...
how would you spin this one...From Yeshua himself:
Joh_20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God, and your God.
If Yeshua was HaShem in the flesh, then how can this statement that He Himself made hold True?...Note, that He does not refer to them as Disciples but as BROTHERS...For He is the first-Born among MANY bretheren...
No need to spin anything. The human that we call Jesus was ascending back to that part of Him called the Father. I don't see any problem with what He said here. God is not bound by the limitations you and I are. He is God. What can God not do?
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You are spending a lot of time pushing this idea, antredd
