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Also, Bigthirsty, even the words of Jesus that we have as recorded in the gospels were handed down to us. The disciples who were with the Lord passed what they had heard to others and what was heard was recorded, right? Faith is the key. We weren't there with Jesus and those who were with Him but we believe. If you read the writings of Paul you will find that they go along with the gospels. Paul suffered so much for the Lord as did the other apostles and the fact that he made a complete turnaround and gave so much of himself to the church (by the power of God) that he once tried to destroy says a lot to me. God bless.
I'm sorry.. I don't base my belief in someones writings based on how much they suffered.. There is one person that suffered. Jesus. The rest.. not even a comparison.. but it goes to show that so many hold Paul up to a "Jesus" like level..
Hi Bigthirsty, I was in no way putting Paul or any of the apostles on the same level as Jesus, but I do believe that Paul was appointed by Jesus to be an apostle and that his words were inspired as he was an apostle. I was saying that his experience in suffering for the Lord and in giving so much to the church that he once tried to destroy says a lot to me. Something significant happened to turn him from an enemy to one who planted churches and tended to them, and I believe that it was the experience of meeting Jesus and the mission that Jesus gave to him concerning the Gentiles. Whatever he suffered was the result of God's work in his life.
1 Timothy1
12. And I give thanks to him who enabled me -- Christ Jesus our Lord -- that he did reckon me stedfast, having put [me] to the ministration,
13. who before was speaking evil, and persecuting, and insulting, but I found kindness, because, being ignorant, I did [it] in unbelief,14. and exceedingly abound did the grace of our Lord, with faith and love that [is] in Christ Jesus:15. stedfast [is] the word, and of all acceptation worthy, that Christ Jesus came to the world to save sinners -- first of whom I am;16. but because of this I found kindness, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all long-suffering, for a pattern of those about to believe on him to life age-during:17. and to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only wise God, [is] honour and glory -- to the ages of the ages! Amen (Young's Literal)
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 04-20-2008 at 05:45 PM..
why not? Why can't I look at the Bible for what it is? A compilation of different works chosen to be "divine" by other people. Because some council said it is "inspired" then I should just take their word?
Nope.. can't do that. I put more weight in the gospels as they speak about Jesus. I have to ask questions.. and honestly if my questions ruffle feathers.. so be it. Use it as an opportunity to be introspective and examine your own faith. I don't judge you for what you do or don't believe. I'm simply using a forum to ask a simple question..
Why do so many.. put so much on Paul?
Just as example.. went to church today and guess what I heard.. I heard a whole lot of Paul.. Paul Paul Paul..
bigthirsty,
First of all, please re-read what I posted one post before. Many have sought to challenge the Word. There's much good research out there for you if you sincerely want to dig into this subject. Josh McDowell is an excellent author who has done much scholarly research. He may be someone you'd enjoy reading. He's written several books...
What exactly were they teaching about today... "Paul, Paul,...Paul"...???
Can I ask what type of church you attend?
Last edited by World Citizen; 04-20-2008 at 06:05 PM..
This is from the Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary about the particular scripture in question...
2 Timothy 3:14-17
The Adequacy of Scripture 3:14-17
14-15 Rather than being led astray by these impostors, Timothy must continue in the teachings that he had learned and of which he had "become convinced." These Scriptural teachings he had learned from his grandmother Lois and his mother Eunice right from the time he was a baby. Jewish children were customarily taught the law at an early age, and they had to commit parts of it to memory. "The holy Scriptures" renders "the sacred writings," i.e., what we now call the OT Scriptures, which were able to make him "wise" in preparation "for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." They disciplined him in obedience to God and also pointed forward to the coming Messiah, through whom salvation by faith would become available.
16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed." The adjective used here is theopneustos which is a combination of two other Greek words: theos ("God"; GK G2536 and pneo ("breathe"; GK G4463. This is one of the greatest texts in the NT describing the inspiration or the "God-breathed" aspect of the Bible. Another outstanding passage is 2Pe 1:21, which describes how divine inspiration took place (see comments on that verse).
This is from the Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary about the particular scripture in question...
2 Timothy 3:14-17
The Adequacy of Scripture 3:14-17
14-15 Rather than being led astray by these impostors, Timothy must continue in the teachings that he had learned and of which he had "become convinced." These Scriptural teachings he had learned from his grandmother Lois and his mother Eunice right from the time he was a baby. Jewish children were customarily taught the law at an early age, and they had to commit parts of it to memory. "The holy Scriptures" renders "the sacred writings," i.e., what we now call the OT Scriptures, which were able to make him "wise" in preparation "for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." They disciplined him in obedience to God and also pointed forward to the coming Messiah, through whom salvation by faith would become available.
16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed." The adjective used here is theopneustos which is a combination of two other Greek words: theos ("God"; GK G2536 and pneo ("breathe"; GK G4463. This is one of the greatest texts in the NT describing the inspiration or the "God-breathed" aspect of the Bible. Another outstanding passage is 2Pe 1:21, which describes how divine inspiration took place (see comments on that verse).
God bless.
Ok. Just wanted to make sure we were talking about the OT scriptures.
Had the impression that folks were implying that the NT, was the scripture Paul was referring to. Afterall, it did not exist yet.
So, what congregation of the church of Christ did you attend, and why are all congregations condemned because of your unhappy experience? That seems awfully narrow minded to me
Sorry I mispelled your name, I meant no harm..I belonged to a nondenominational, self governing, musical, established in 33ad, women are not able or qualified to teach any man or boy over 12 Sunday school; women are to be silent in church and under subjection to their husbands in church and at home; Catholic, tithe and communion believers; hellfire and brimstone, scare the kids alter calls; we are the only true church; protectors of pediphiles as long as they get baptized by full immersion; saved by acts 2:38; everyone takes scripture out of context except us; you leave us, we shun you; we baptize you only if we feel you are ready;
About the same doctrine as is taught in each and every one of the probably upward to 50+ congregations in several States I have attended in my 40 some years..I do know there are Universal Churches of Christ, International Churches of Christ, etc, etc which are very different from the ones I have described. So do you belong to one of those?
Appology accepted...
No way do I belong to one of those ! We are one congregation of the churches of Christ. As I have posted elsewhere, we are autonimous, therefore every congregation may differ in ways that are not actually unscriptural. Some differ in that they have adopted ways that are unscriptural. Being scriptural is our primary goal, and that includes not having instrumental music in the worship.
We had a preacher in our congregation who tried to pull that "women be silent in church" to the extent that we couldn't even answer a question in Bible class or teach any type of bible class in the assembly.. He left when he found out we didn't go along with that. We do believe what is written about women not usurping authority over the men. We do not have woman preachers. We do have women class teachers, but they do not teach men in classes. I have taught children of ages from 5 on up, and women.
I have gone on long enough, and have strayed from the OP ! Sorry !
The so-called apostle Paul (Saul of Tarsus) is not an authority for anything. He was a confidence man who founded the cult of Christianity by inventing the story of Christ’s resurrection from the dead and his vision of him on the road to Damascus to fool gullible people of the time through a series of chain letters (the "Epistles"). When charges were brought against him, he managed to evade prosecution by claiming Roman citizenship, under which authority he was transported to Rome and imprisoned in the Carcer of the Forum Romanum until Nero had him put to death.
Because 2 Timothy 3:16 says ALL scripture is inspired by God.
....I concur.......!!!!!!!
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What exactly were they teaching about??....
We do believe what is written about women not usurping authority over the men. We do not have woman preachers. We do have women class teachers, but they do not teach men in classes. I have taught children of ages from 5 on up, and women.
