Is it a Christian belief people were 'dead to God' until Pentecost? (Bible, Jacob)

[unfailing presence]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

On another forum someone said this today...is this a common belief?

So..... Job
the criminal promised Paradise---all dead to God anyway
until after Pentecost?

There were many dead to God before Pentecost , and many more dead to God post-Pentecost.
They can all be identified by their common inability to say with Job :

" For I know that my redeemer liveth and that He shall stand at the latter day
upon the earth . "
( Job 19:25 )

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by unfailing presence

There were many dead to God before Pentecost , and many more dead to God post-Pentecost.
They can all be identified by their common inability to say with Job :

" For I know that my redeemer liveth and that He shall stand at the latter day
upon the earth . "
( Job 19:25 )

What I keep saying is that 3000 people died at the first Pentecost, 3000 people were saved at the second, and so the rain teaches death to life.

But understand that there are two rains and Pentecost concludes Passover and so the light rain is given.

But the rain of the fall second season is a flood promised to be TWICE THE POWER OF PENTECOST, A FLOOD

Jesus speaks of this appointed flood to be just as in the days of Noah.


Noah's flood WAS the flood of the fall which came before the rain of Pentecost, and so where we saw death on the fist Shemini Atzeret, I believe we see life in the second flood, my opinions.

I can show this flood taking place in the prophets and show great hope after it has swepted by.

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

On another forum someone said this today...is this a common belief?
So Jacob, Enoch, David, Jeremiah, Mary Magdalene, Hosea, Abraham, Job, John, Peter,
the criminal promised Paradise---all dead to God anyway
until after Pentecost?....................

ALL who died before Jesus died (John 3:13 ) are still asleep in the grave including people like David - Acts 2:34.
No one who died before Jesus died was promised a ' heavenly ' resurrection but an earthly resurrection - Acts 24:15.
They can have a future earthly resurrection when under Christ Earth will become a beautiful paradise as Eden originally was.
Starting with the people like those of Luke 22:28-30 (Daniel 7:18) Rev. 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10 they are offered: Heaven.
So, the majority of mankind will live on Earth, a beautiful paradisical Earth under Christ's 1,000-year reign over Earth.

[Hannibal Flavius]

There are 3 sections of heaven, 3 types of resurrection Matthew can teach from Hebrews 8, tell them what is says about Moses in Hebrew 8 Matt, love that name btw, my Grandfather's name.

[highway54]

No maam. As you pointed out God had many friends, however on Pentecost of 33 a new covenant went into effect. The pouring out of holy spirit on those disciples gathered that day was the birth of the Christian faith.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by highway54

No ma'am. As you pointed out God had many friends...

If I stop there...that is what I believe. Hard to change...He loved Enoch so much
He swept him up and away... He helped and personally counseled Hosea...''dead to God''? (or asleep?)
I admit, I'm a very simple person...no scholar with big words, no PhD after my name.
Some things just don't mesh to me.


Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24),
which some Christians interpret as Enoch's entering Heaven alive. (found online to be sure)
Elijah, too?

Thank you all for posting. I might not understand it all...but thanks. Carry on.

[Meerkat2]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

If I stop there...that is what I believe. Hard to change...He loved Enoch so much
He swept him up and away... He helped and personally counseled Hosea...''dead to God''? (or asleep?)
I admit, I'm a very simple person...no scholar with big words, no PhD after my name.
Some things just don't mesh to me.


Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24),
which some Christians interpret as Enoch's entering Heaven alive. (found online to be sure)
Elijah, too?

Thank you all for posting. I might not understand it all...but thanks. Carry on.

I’m a simple person too

I don’t think the focus of any of the scriptures is to tell us literal, historical, miraculous, improbable things

The early church fathers understood this because they were rational people who were writing intellectual, theological things about the writings that they had inherited, and the terms they used were also symbolic and their focus was about interpreting scriptures and also writing their own prophecy, instructions by the Spirit they felt

There is a lot of stuff recorded about the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Hebrews that is not actually historical .... we have a merging of fact and myth and I believe we are at the stage where “the books” ie writings are being opened and we are to use our intelligence to separate the mythical from the facts

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

There are 3 sections of heaven, 3 types of resurrection Matthew can teach from Hebrews 8, tell them what is says about Moses in Hebrew 8 Matt, love that name btw, my Grandfather's name.

I am wondering how you arrived at the conclusion there are 3 sections of Heaven and 3 types of resurrection _________
I find Hebrews chapter 8 is about the tabernacle having heavenly significance at Hebrews 8:1-6.
Verse 5 corresponds to Exodus 25:9,40; Exodus 26:30 besides Numbers 8:4.
Whereas, Hebrews 8:7-13 deals with contrasting the old and new covenants .

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

If I stop there...that is what I believe. Hard to change...He loved Enoch so much
He swept him up and away... He helped and personally counseled Hosea...''dead to God''? (or asleep?)
I admit, I'm a very simple person...no scholar with big words, no PhD after my name.
Some things just don't mesh to me.
Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24),
which some Christians interpret as Enoch's entering Heaven alive. (found online to be sure)
Elijah, too?..................

So, the question is to which heavens did Elijah ascend - 2 Kings 2:11
In Scripture Heaven can be (1) God's home of 1 Kings 8:39,49, (2) can be the universal heavens - Deut. 4:19, (3) and the mid-heavens where the birds fly and the wind blows - Psalm 78:26; Matthew 6:26.
Since Elijah was still alive on Earth years later writing a letter - 2nd Chronicles 21:1,12 then Elijah did Not ascend to God's home but was transferred from one spot on Earth to another location. That is why we find Elijah still alive years later.
Besides the way to Heaven (John 3:13) was Not opened up until Christ ascended to Heaven - John 14:2-3; Hebrews 9:24; Hebrews 10:19-20.

As far as Enoch, God simply did Not let enemies kill Enoch.
Enoch's life was cut short by God to spare him an awful death and God disposed of his body as God did with Moses' body.
- Hebrews 11:5,13; Deut. 34:5-6; Jude verse 9.
So, Enoch and Elijah, and even King David (Acts 2:34), are in still sleeping in the grave awaiting a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on Earth again when Jesus begins his 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by Meerkat2

There is a lot of stuff recorded about the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Hebrews that is not actually historical .... we have a merging of fact and myth and I believe we are at the stage where “the books” ie writings are being opened and we are to use our intelligence to separate the mythical from the facts

What I find historical is the Non-Biblical reference to Israel as found in the Egyptian National Museum, Cairo, Egypt.
The granite Merneptah Stela mentions 'Israel' as real history.
In Scripture, both Pharaoh and Moses used the word ' Israel ' when referring to descendants of Jacob at Exodus 5:1-2.